What's the best manual focus nikon body for TTL and fill flash

What's a good older Nikon body for flash?

I have an FE and a F3HP, neither of which are very useful for flash unless one sticks to manual. 1/125 isnt so bad with the FE, but no TTL. The F3 is a TTL flash mess unless I get a SB16 (a or b?) or an outrageously expensive adapter. At 1/80 fill is limited anyway. I also have a N80 (F80) which is useless for AI, AIS lenses but fine for fill with the proper speedlight and has its own little flash that does fill OK.

I have a gossen luna pro F meter, which is very effective, if not cumbersome and tedious to the family....."hold on, let me calibrate the speedlight...no. no just a minute..."

I tried a N2020 that I was given, but it died after one roll so I never really got to know it and I think it was not manual focus compatible anyway.

Lets just forget the FM3A, F6 and other very expensive bodies, I just can't afford them. The F5 is enormous, so I would not use it if I had it... too freakin big.

I would consider a F4 with the small grip, even though its a bit oversized...awesome camera, drool.

Thanks

How about the Nikon FA?

The Nikon FA and FE2 both have 1/250 sync speeds and TTL flash.

FE2 and FA are my top two choices for your criteria. The F100 may suit your needs as well. All excellent bodies.

And you'll want the SB-16a for your F3 if you go that route.

I have heard of it (edit...the FA... many answers before I finished this post), but when I bought my FE they were a lot more pricey. My FE and F3 were both cheap beaters so I just didnt bother looking at the FA seriously.. they seem to be more affordable now.

The Nikon N2020 is also very cheaply available with high sync speed and TTL, focus assist and meters with manual focus lenses as well as other the bells and whistles in a still relatively small and light body.

Any comments on the N8008s (f801s) as it seems to do ttl fill and works with manual lenses with the SB24, an awesome speedlight.

F801(N8008), F90(N90), FA, FE2, F100. I think you should be able to find an F801 or F90 fairly cheaply. I have three of them that were superfluous in lens kits that I purchased. Unfortunately I am not in the US, or I would have given you one for free. I personally use the F100 or F5 if I have the requirement you describe, but I would gladly substitute the F90 or F801 if I had only that. Which speedlight? I use the SB-26, but I think the 24, 27 and 28 are all viable options, as are the 80DX and 800. Forgive me if I get a model number wrong - I'm shooting from the hip here.

Very unfashionable I’m sure, but the F301/N2000 works well with flash. It is a little odd in that in standard guise it uses AAA batteries; there was an optional AA adapter and replacement baseplate. Tripod mount hole is right on one side which is not great, but there was an aluminium accessory plate with more sensibly located mount points; this adds rather to the weight of what is a very lightweight camera, top housing is plastic.

All I used for years was an FE2 with a Sunpak 555 w/ TTL module for wedding receptions and couldn't ask for more. Two reasons I bought the FE2 were the flash sync and the mirror brake. Nikon used a mirror brake system that really helped reduce mirror shock/vibration. I remember a test Modern Photography(I think) did that proved the new mirror braking system really did work almost as well as mirror lockup. My good friend shot with an FA and loved that camera to pieces. Either one would work. JW

If you want 1/250 sync speed then it's the FE2 or FM3a or the FA. I personally don't care for the high sync speed as I use flash for low light situation. I used the Metz 60CT4 with the F3 and TTL and it works great (better than the F5). Besides without TTL you don't necessarily have to use manual you can use the flash built in sensor for auto.

Many of the cameras mentioned are not MF per se, but can be used with manual focus lenses. N2000 and FE2 are "native" MF bodies. N90s is an AF body, cheap, and has fairly sophisticated flash capabilities.

I don't think the FG (and FG-20) was mentioned, I believe that does have TTL and is MF only.

Chan Tran said:

If you want 1/250 sync speed then it's the FE2 or FM3a or the FA. I personally don't care for the high sync speed as I use flash for low light situation. I used the Metz 60CT4 with the F3 and TTL and it works great (better than the F5). Besides without TTL you don't necessarily have to use manual you can use the flash built in sensor for auto.

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That's all true, but having a flash sync of 1/250th of a sec is not a bad thing for taking the shadows out of the eye sockets of pretty young maidens in outdoor shots with overhead sunlight. Yes, it's not a necessity, but nice to have just the same. JW

FM2n has a high flash speed but you need to use a sensor flash.

The FG/FG20/EM are only /60 flash sync (I think)

F4. the ability, if you use it, to have matrix metering on most manual focus lenses is great. and when i let others use it with fill flash, setting it to program mode and letting them snap away almost always gives great results. now finding the MB-20 for a cheap price, thats an issue

destroya said:

now finding the MB-20 for a cheap price, thats an issue

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Just as a curiosity for you: the F4 in the US was only available in the shelves as the F4s with the larger MB-21 grip. If you wanted the "original" F4 with the MB-20, you had to order it.
Elsewhere, the F4 was normally sold besides the F4S and the F4E when that one became available.
That's why it is difficult to find a MB-20. Here in the UK it easier to find the F4 with the MB-20 than it is to find the MB-20 alone.

I don't think the FG (and FG-20) was mentioned, I believe that does have TTL and is MF only.

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The FG was the first Nikon amateur SLR to have TTL flash. It is also the first to have it on the hot shoe. The FG-20 doesn't have TTL flash. Both have a 1/90th sec flash sync.

To the OP
Apart the FM3A, there are no manual focus Nikons that can do TTL fill flash. Even so, all the FM3A has is a button to force -1EV on the flash exposure.
Only the F4 can do Matrix or centre-weighted balanced fill flash with AI/S lenses. Other AF Nikons like the F801/S, F601, F90 series, F70, F5 and F100 can do centre-weighted and/or spot metering balanced fill flash.
If you just want to use Standard TTL flash in a MF body, then the best SLRs are the FE2 and FA as said above as they have 1/250th sec sync. Otherwise the F-301 or the FG are your cheap options.

Chan Tran said:

I used the Metz 60CT4 with the F3 and TTL and it works great

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Yikes! that thing in HUGE.


I think that the ability to use flash in TTL outweighs my need for fill flash, but its nice to know what you guys think on this. For studio type work I am fine with manual and metering for it. My biggest requirement for flash is for traveling and shooting in bars and homes with friends and family with the availability to use some fill outside occasionally.

From all this it looks like the N8008 is edging out the FA and FE2 although not as fashionable . The n8008s is pretty cheap and has the high eyepoint viewfinder similar to the F3. I prefer the waist level finder for the F3, but I think there is no other TTL nikon with that ability. The F4 drops to spot meter only with WLF.

The funny thing is, I tried to buy a N8008 on ebay 2 years ago, but the seller shipped me an N80. It was $6 shipped, so I kept it and like it quite a bit. Too bad it cant use manual lenses.

At today's prices, by one of each, and find out for yourself what you tend to grab the most often.
Then you have your answer. Sell the rest, and maybe get a second body.

For TTL fill flash, the FA gets you as close to perfect / easy as I could imagine. I have a pair of em, and an SB16. Super easy - but no better than a good thryristor external eye system, unless your doing macro.


I shot a lot of fill flash using manual calculations before the days of TTL, and once you get the math down in your head, it is really straightforward and easy.

===== manual method ======
Just set the camera to speed it syncs at. First, turn the ASA speed up 2/3 - 1/2 stop OR set compensation for 1/2 stop under exposure ( critical for reversal films, so so with Negs )

Adjust meter on camera for correct exposure ( say, F8 for example ) then set the flash to give you a 5.6. Poof... Perfect 3 - 1 ratio.

( I know some people will say that is 2 to 1. But they would be wrong unless the flash is ONLY illuminating what the ambient light is NOT illuminating. )

Here is the explanation. ( using this method makes it easy peasy )

Lets say that the f8 exposure is for X units of light. Setting the flash for 5.6, means that it would expect the LENS to be set to f 5.6, so the flash exposure would be 1/2 of what you need, or 1 stop under-exposed at f8.

So f8 = 100% Units of light required.
f5.6 = 50% Units of light required.
Shaded portion gets only 50 units.
Portion lit by flash AND ambient get 100 + 50, or 150 units of light. 150 / 50 = 3. 3 to 1 ratio.
See that 150 Units for flash and ambient? That's 50% more than whats needed, so that is why you set exposure compensation at beginning so you don't overexpose if your shooting chromes.
1 stop difference between flash setting and ambient is 3 to 1.
2 stop difference is 5 to 1. ( 125 units / 25 units = 5 to 1 ) And you only need to set exposure compensation by -1/3 stop for chromes.

Now when you are using your rollieflex or classic blad or whatever, you can do the same thing with ease, and get the big lovely Chromes or Negs, perfectly exposed and with a 3 to 1 ratio on the critical parts, with the background going slightly darker but only a bit, and retaining detail in the highlights.


=== edit ===
I read the above comment that the FA does not really do fill flash, and that is true - it does not do adjustable ratio fill flash automagically with some button or knob. if your shooting at a 250th, and set your aperture accordingly before you switch the flash on, the ttl metering would give you about a 2/1 ratio, and the ambient + flash is going to be more than the flash illuminated only. However, to get other ratios, If you manually meter, and configure the camera to the correct ambient light, and then dial in say, -1 exposure on the compensation, the camera will compensate, and underexpose the flash by that amount. So it' kind of a backwards approach from what I described above for pure manual calculations. I guess I been doing it the 'hard way' so long I forgot that its not all as "automatic" as some would like...

Blaine

trythis said:

Lets just forget the FM3A, F6 and other very expensive bodies, I just can't afford them. The F5 is enormous, so I would not use it if I had it... too freakin big.
I would consider a F4 with the small grip, even though its a bit oversized...awesome camera, drool.
Thanks

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It's simple: get a Nikon F4s.

TheToadMen said:

It's simple: get a Nikon F4s.

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Too big. I dont carry my Eos 630 for the same reason.


I just found an N70 that I forgot I bought and it seems to meter my AI lenses. I cant figure out how it works without readinga manual because it has a LCD with a rainbow style menu....what the hell were they thinking?

Maybe it wasnt so bad of a purchase...it came with a 50mm f1.4 with oily blades for $30.

If they could make the N70 work with manual lenses...why not the F80.

The N70 user interface is a bit odd, but not all that difficult to get used to. I just don't like the lithium batteries. I do have an N2000 if of interest.

I have been reading the N70 manual... this is just too crazy to not post here:
Its good news, just a mess to read.

trythis said:

Its good news, just a mess to read.

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No, it isn't that much. Have you seen the manual for the SB-26? It is thicker than any other Nikon manual made until then!

The F70 is a very good camera once you get used to its controls. It also has a very good viewfinder with one of the highest magnifications in its class.

F3hp only because I have one!