What's so great about XTOL?

Brandon D. · Mar 28, 2009

srs5694 said:
This is one of several techniques that people use to minimize oxidation of partially-used bottles of developer. It's a tried and tested technique, although I myself have never used it.

Yeah, it only seemed logical to me. And I figure that it's best to go the "dummy proof" route for now...

Brandon D. · Mar 28, 2009

BetterSense said:
I used to use the "multiple small bottles to minimize exposure to air while maintaining convenience" approach to storing stock solution, but now I put all my developer stock solution in a reused 5L mylar-bladder wine box. It's easier, takes up a lot less space, and I can draw an arbitrary amount of stock solution without exposing the contents to air or ever leaving half-empty bottles.

Sounds like a great idea, too. How often do you go through your 5L of XTOL?

BetterSense · Mar 28, 2009

I don't use XTOL, only D76. 5L lasts me about 6 months or so. I also use the wine boxes for Dektol and pre-mixed rinse solution. The Dektol lasts a lot longer; it's probably been nearly a year for my current batch, and it still comes out nice and light colored (Dektol turns straw colored and then brown when it's exposed to air). I personally figure if the boxen keep wine fresh for a couple years before taste is affected, they should be good for at least that long before developer is significantly effected.

Brandon D. · Apr 20, 2009

Got another question.

If XTOL increases the speed of my film, for example, let's say that my "Ilford Delta 100" turns into "Ilford Delta 125," then what would be some decent considerations for pushing the film in 1/3 stop increments to EI 125 or to EI 160, with regards to developing times? 10%? 15%?

This is, just in case I want normal shadow detail, or if I want decreased shadow detail, without having to switch to a different developer.

Thanks!

BetterSense · Apr 20, 2009

If you are evaluating shadow detail, don't change development time. Shadow detail is relatively unaffected by development time.

Brandon D. · Apr 20, 2009

BetterSense said:
If you are evaluating shadow detail, don't change development time. Shadow detail is relatively unaffected by development time.

Alright. So, if shooting it and developing it at 100 gives me too much shadow detail, then would I just shoot it at 125 or at 160 but develop it for 100?

PHOTOTONE · Apr 20, 2009

Brandon D. said:
Alright. So, if shooting it and developing it at 100 gives me too much shadow detail, then would I just shoot it at 125 or at 160 but develop it for 100?

If you get too much shadow detail for your tastes, then rate your film at a higher ISO. If your highlights are too dense cut back on development time.

Tim Gray · Apr 20, 2009

BetterSense said:
If you are evaluating shadow detail, don't change development time. Shadow detail is relatively unaffected by development time.

Do I have to drink crap boxed wine to get the containers, or can you buy them new? It sounds like a very interesting idea if they are easy to fill and clean...

Paul Verizzo · Apr 20, 2009

Tim Gray said:
Do I have to drink crap boxed wine to get the containers, or can you buy them new? It sounds like a very interesting idea if they are easy to fill and clean...

I just checked REI, the giant outdoor gear company, for a simple water bag. I bought one a few years back to replace one that disappeared after several decades. It was a simple nylon cover with a handle, the bag inside was identical to box wine ones except for the location of the valve. Every now and then I was forced to drink some wine to get a new bladder. The bag's, not mine.

Like so many good things, it appears to be history.

Unless all your family and friends are Mormon or AA'ers, you shouldn't have trouble ridding the box of its contents. Even if you dump the wine, it's not a bad price for something photographic.

PS, the white wines are more palatable when cheap than red.

BetterSense · Apr 20, 2009

You can buy them new, for about $5. For about $7 more you can buy them new with wine in them. I have seen them at survial/camping websites but I can't find any now. You might be able get some free from restaurants. I swear by them for chemical storage.

Uncle Bill · Apr 20, 2009

I get great results with Xtol 1+1 with Tri-x 400, along with Rodinal and D-76 it's my go to developer.

Tim Gray · Apr 20, 2009

Ok. I found some on the internet after searching for 'mylar water bag'. I found a couple 1 gallon ones - most are 5 gallons. I might have to do this.

I just realized that you could easily do the 5 gallon bags and just fill them up with a gallon. Doh! That's the whole point of them, right?

BetterSense · Apr 20, 2009

Do they really have 5 gallon ones? Do you mean 5 Liters? I use the 5L ones for 1-gallon batches all the time. Plus you can mix up a new batch before you are all out of the last batch that way too.

Tim Gray · Apr 20, 2009

BetterSense said:
Do they really have 5 gallon ones? Do you mean 5 Liters? I use the 5L ones for 1-gallon batches all the time. Plus you can mix up a new batch before you are all out of the last batch that way too.

Nope 5 gallon:

They also sell a kit with a bunch of them plus boxes.

Brandon D. · Apr 20, 2009

PHOTOTONE said:
If you get too much shadow detail for your tastes, then rate your film at a higher ISO. If your highlights are too dense cut back on development time.

Thanks a lot!

Lee L · Apr 20, 2009

Bowzart tells me he uses this and likes it: http://www.survivalsolutions.com/store/product41.html

I've ordered several, as shipping on just one or two about doubles the price.

Also I've found mentions on the internet of Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts, and Panera selling coffee in such containers for offices and parties, so you might see if you can buy an empty or full bladder+box at those places, if that suits your needs. Someone online measured the Starbucks "Box of Coffee" bag at 6 liters. A price of $12 for a box of coffee and way too much half-and-half was mentioned for Starbucks, and Dunkin Donuts' "Box of Joe" was said to be much cheaper. Some suggested that asking the right person at the store might snag you a free clean empty.

Lee

jglass · Apr 20, 2009

These mylar bags look great! But my question is whether there are any issues with chem storage in them.

I have heard here that some types of food-grade plastic are not good for storing chems. I can't remember which ones are not recommended or why.

Wondering about mylar?

Thanks

Jeff

BetterSense · Apr 20, 2009

HDPE is a common type of plastic that is used to hold food, such as salsa. LDPE is used for milk jugs. Neither one is particularly good for long-term chemical storage since they are somewhat gas permeable. It's worth mentioning however that most original containers of photo chemistry (such as plastic rapid fixer bottles) are actually HDPE, as are some photochemistry bottles that are sold for the purpose. I think those accordion-style collapsible bottles are HDPE too. It's not THAT permeable....

PET is considered better and less permeable. It's worth noting that mylar is biaxially oriented PET, usually with an additional coat of aluminization or other barrier material sputtered on.

Mylar wine bags should be more impermeable than just about anything else but glass. It keeps wine fresh for many months, but you'll never see wine packaged in any kind of plastic bottle.

BobNewYork · Apr 21, 2009

BetterSense;786052 .....Mylar wine bags should be more impermeable than just about anything else but glass. It keeps wine fresh for many months said:
You didn't see last season's BoJolly Nooveau?
I have to say that many of the boxed wines today are actually quite drinkable - so that's my preferred route for darkroom storage

Back to the Xtol. I started using it when it first came out and have loved it ever since. At 1+1 or 1+2 it's an excellent developer for all films IMHO. I use Xtol and Rodinal exclusively now. I don't think that there's any point in comparing Xtol and Rodinal. They are very different developers. My choice in films is TMX and TX. I use them both in both developers - but for very different results and different subject types.

Bob H

Brandon D. · Jun 18, 2009

Oh yeah, how can I check to make sure my XTOL developer is still working?

Ian Grant · Jun 18, 2009

If you using 35mm cut off the leader and place it in some Xtol & see if it develops properly.

Ian

Brandon D. · Jun 18, 2009

Forgive me; I should've mentioned that I'm developing 120 film. But I guess I can sacrifice a roll of 35mm film that I don't plan on using.

Ian Grant · Jun 18, 2009

When I used Xtol I usually processed one roll of 120 from a session first, and then evaluated the negatives before processing the rest. Over the years I used it I never had a problem, but occasionally needed to tweak dev times by about 5-10%. I've only recently sopped using it because it's less practical when I'm not in the UK for long periods of time so it sits idle for months.

Ian

bdial · Jun 18, 2009

With 120, what I have done to test is to snip off a piece from the end of the roll in the dark, then load the rest on the reel. With 6x6 there should be little risk of hitting the last frame. 6x7 or 6x9 may need more caution.
With 35, you can snip off an inch or so of leader without losing the whole roll

Felinik · Sep 14, 2012

BetterSense said:
Mylar wine bags should be more impermeable than just about anything else but glass. It keeps wine fresh for many months, but you'll never see wine packaged in any kind of plastic bottle.

Believe it or not, here, in France, the home of the wine culture (well, according to the French.. (I'm Swedish)), you can find wine on plastic bottles! Often cheaper supermarket products, but not always only the "bad stuff"....

What's so great about XTOL?

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