What's really needed to sell prints?

Dave Parker · Jun 21, 2006

I really wasn't pissing, I was just confused and now I have been told I can't read, but I cut and pasted directly from the listing for the print I was interested in...so I think I will go elsewhere, I did attempt to post this same message earlier this morning and couldn't find the right words, so I deleted the posting...I find it disturbing to be told I can't read, when I know what I read in the listing..

R.

xtrout1 · Jun 21, 2006

Mounting press

I have not read anything about mounting methods in this thread.
Does anyone use an archival dry mounting press?
I do not know how else you could flatten and mount prints without this.
Elmers glue?

I use a Seal 210M Dry Mounting Press.

lee · Jun 21, 2006

thanks Scott, I will send the print out right away.

lee\c

Donald Miller · Jun 21, 2006

xtrout1 said:
I have not read anything about mounting methods in this thread.
Does anyone use an archival dry mounting press?
I do not know how else you could flatten and mount prints without this.
Elmers glue?

I use a Seal 210M Dry Mounting Press.

I use a Seal 210 M press and have for almost thirty years. I have used Seal Color Mount tissue for the same amount of time. I use Crescent White 4 Ply Alph Rag (buffered rag board) as my mount board and overmat. I cut my own mount boards and mats using a Logan mat cutter. For the frame itself, I use Neilson profile 50 in German Silver finish and 1/8 inch clear acrylic as the glazing.

However, I will stand by my earlier post. It does not require a ton of expenditure to produce work that is professional in presentation...especially when beginning. I did not go to this expense when I first began.

TheFlyingCamera · Jun 21, 2006

xtrout1 said:
I have not read anything about mounting methods in this thread.
Does anyone use an archival dry mounting press?
I do not know how else you could flatten and mount prints without this.
Elmers glue?

I use a Seal 210M Dry Mounting Press.

You can drymount successfully with a good clothes iron and a bit of care and patience. If you search back through the forums here, someone posted a video clip they made of how to do this. It is actually pretty simple and straightforward.

I wasn't aware that a drymount press itself was archival or non-archival. The difference would be the drymounting tissue and its acid content. As to the best of my knowledge, most gallerists, museum curators and archivists prefer prints that are hinge-mounted with linen tape, applied with a wheat paste glue, so that any mounting can be undone should the mounting board become damaged.

JBrunner · Jun 21, 2006

c6h6o3 said:
The good news is that as a creative artist you can do what you want to. I compose the image on the groundglass, I print the photograph and it looks like I want it to look. Complete liberty.

The bad news is that once I attempt to sell it I am subject to the tyranny of the marketplace just as is any business transaction. Sometimes you have to beat the bushes in order to drum up a little trade. Sometimes you have to sweeten the pot in order to push a prospective purchaser over to your side of the fence he is straddling.

A recent experience of mine which may prove instructive:

I am new to all this, too. I recently helped organize a show of Azo prints at Visarts in Rockville in which I was one of the artists represented. I put together the pricing for the show, but forgot to ask the photographers whether their quoted prices had taken into account the 40% commission the gallery would take of all sales. Only one of the 5 photographers had stated his policy in the quote. I therefore marked up the photographs to cover the commission. Almost nothing sold. I had priced them beyond the tipping point.

Then we shipped the show to the Paul Paletti Gallery in Louisville, Ky. where it was up for two months. In the hands of an experienced dealer everybody sold at least one print individually and Paletti negotiated a sale of 8 prints out of the show to a major collection at the University. Not only is the money welcome to each of us but it does wonders for our resumes, since we can now cite that we're represented in the University's Photo Archives. In order to close the deal he had to compromise on the price. He was willing to eat the difference out of his commission, but we're all so delighted with the deal that we insist he keep his full percentage even at the reduced prices. Would we rather he'd "never back it down, once he'd set the price"? You've got to be kidding.

I can't imagine what such bluster as "once you set a price, never back it down" is meant to accomplish, but I can tell you from experience that it will often guarantee that your prints will not sell at all. Sometimes you gotta deal to get paid. So deal, and get paid.

Maybe an un elaborated comment, but hardly a bluster. There are ways to politely question something somebody writes without unnecessary derision.
You can disagree with or question anything I write, and thats fine. We are colleagues after all. Just please don't be rude.

The point of the statement, unconnected from uncommon incidents such as your anecdote, which is the story of a mistake or poor communication, that was corrected and not a rollback of a reasonable market price, is this: If you set a price for a particular print, and you sell some of them to collectors, and then later lower your price on the same print, the collectors who purchased at the high price are going to feel that their investment has depreciated, and you are inconsisent, and unreliable as far as your pricing goes, and probably not purchase any more of your prints. You also send the market the impression that you aren't doing that well, and demand for your work has declined, or was never really there. It doesn't matter if your price was $20, $200, or $2000. Perception and marketing pure and simple, or perhaps we will call it "The tyranny of the marketplace."

Individual deals that are struck, in private, are of course, common business sense. The deal on the 8 prints would be considered volume, wholesale. Also common business practice.

Often a short statement may represent more than the sum of someone else's experience. A simple polite" I'm not sure what you mean, please explain your point" might be more appropriate.

And in the end, anybody can do anything they want. Its only advice.

krisbfunk · Jun 21, 2006

TheFlyingCamera said:
... As to the best of my knowledge, most gallerists, museum curators and archivists prefer prints that are hinge-mounted with linen tape, applied with a wheat paste glue, so that any mounting can be undone should the mounting board become damaged.

The hinge mounting option is interesting.. Getting the archival prints to get flat enough to be presentable is my issue though.. I did see a good point by jbrunner about assuring the press has reached room temp before removing, perhaps why mine have never turned out to be flat enough for anything other than dry mounting.

I'd like more details on the hinge mounting process, if anyone else has any tutorials or recommendations on how to do it, it would be appreciated .. it seems to be explained fairly well in the link below, although I'll have to read it a few times and try a few mochups before actually mounting some work with this procedure!

http://www.danielsmith.com/learn/techLeaflets/0014/

David A. Goldfarb · Jun 21, 2006

To flatten prints for hinge mounting, I put them in the press at about 180 deg. F and close it, but don't clamp it down. After about five minutes, I put the print between two sheets of mat board and put some heavy books on it, so that it cools flat. If you've got a bunch of prints to do, you can just add them to the stack as you press them.

krisbfunk · Jun 21, 2006

Thanks David, I'll try it out

JBrunner · Jun 21, 2006

xtrout1 said:
I have not read anything about mounting methods in this thread.
Does anyone use an archival dry mounting press?
I do not know how else you could flatten and mount prints without this.
Elmers glue?

I use a Seal 210M Dry Mounting Press.

You may have missed the second half of my post on page 1. It addresses this very thing. I use archival materials in my dry mounting. I'm not sure what an archival press is?

blansky · Jun 22, 2006

I have an archival press.

It's an old Ademco with the steering wheel on the top.

It's archival because it's lasted forever.

Michael

kjsphoto · Jun 22, 2006

I have nothing more to say...

Until next time

Papa Tango · Jun 22, 2006

Looks like there are several methods to get prints out. Until this point, I have been displaying in borderless glass frames without matt. Not for sale, but for "personal" gallery display in my office, which is also our county visitor center. The invite has been made to place prints in several local cultural arts and appalachian craft centers in our area. I think that I will experiment with tissue mount (using a large iron through thin cardboard) pressing out, and then overmatting. Found some rather cheap cutters, and having done this freehand with an X-acto knife in the past, should be much easier. I guess that this is all about experimentation and finding the proper "niche".

I too must have difficulty reading. Perhaps that is why several years ago while engaged in a Ph.D program, I told them that it was time for me to go on to something else before they educated me beyond my native intelligence. That comment was not taken graciously...

Kevin, your website reads:

"All prints sold regardless of size will be matted on 4-ply, 100% acid-free archival museum rag board. 5x7 prints will be matted and mounted to 11x14, 8x10 prints will be matted and mounted to 13x15 and 11x14 will be matted and mounted to 16x20."

http://www.kjsphotography.com/limited/desc.php?e=1

There seems no ambiguity there... A simile that I like to use is this: If somebody tells me I smell bad, probably I will get mad. When the second one tells me the same thing, I start checking myself out. By the third comment, it's time to go home and take a bath.

I have no dog in this fight, but the fact that four of us have become a little confused here is something that astute marketers would be concerned about in product representation. Just a thought...

xtrout1 · Jun 22, 2006

Blansky, (Michael)

Thats funny.
I like your humor.

davetravis · Jun 22, 2006

What I'm looking for is, what's really *needed* to sell prints

Customers!!!

kjsphoto · Jun 22, 2006

Do you see anywhere on my personal website where it says Open Edition? Do you?

I suggest you understand what you are talking about before putting your foot in mouth.

Every single print on my personal website is a limited edition print and as stated they are all sold matted and mounted. Yes I can read what I wrote and the images on my personal website are sold as listed and specified as it is said on my PERSONAL WEBSITE.

These people were referring to my ebay store so as expected you do even know what all the fuss was about. Did you even bother to read this thread? Probably not as it seems you just like most others just chime in and speak without getting all the facts straight.

Nowhere on my website do I even mention an OPEN EDITION print that is unmated or unmounted as EVERY SINGLE IMAGE on my website is a LIMITED EIDTION PRINT THAT IS MOUNTED AND MATTED AS DESCRIBED BY WHAT YOU COPIED AND PASTE below to the specified size as noted in the text that you read.

Pragmatist said:
Looks like there are several methods to get prints out. Until this point, I have been displaying in borderless glass frames without matt. Not for sale, but for "personal" gallery display in my office, which is also our county visitor center. The invite has been made to place prints in several local cultural arts and appalachian craft centers in our area. I think that I will experiment with tissue mount (using a large iron through thin cardboard) pressing out, and then overmatting. Found some rather cheap cutters, and having done this freehand with an X-acto knife in the past, should be much easier. I guess that this is all about experimentation and finding the proper "niche".

I too must have difficulty reading. Perhaps that is why several years ago while engaged in a Ph.D program, I told them that it was time for me to go on to something else before they educated me beyond my native intelligence. That comment was not taken graciously...

Kevin, your website reads:

"All prints sold regardless of size will be matted on 4-ply, 100% acid-free archival museum rag board. 5x7 prints will be matted and mounted to 11x14, 8x10 prints will be matted and mounted to 13x15 and 11x14 will be matted and mounted to 16x20."

http://www.kjsphotography.com/limited/desc.php?e=1

There seems no ambiguity there... A simile that I like to use is this: If somebody tells me I smell bad, probably I will get mad. When the second one tells me the same thing, I start checking myself out. By the third comment, it's time to go home and take a bath.

I have no dog in this fight, but the fact that four of us have become a little confused here is something that astute marketers would be concerned about in product representation. Just a thought...

xtrout1 · Jun 22, 2006

Photography business

Kevin Saitta,

I give you a lot of credit for setting up and selling your prints if this is what you want to do.
Many people like me make photographs and keep them in the dark. very few people get to see them. This too is my choice. (Not to say that I would not sell a print for the right price)
You on the otherhand decided to make a business out of this image making thing.

Good luck.

Bob Carnie · Jun 22, 2006

Donald

Your initial post asked if naked prints sell?..... do you need to do more to sell them?.

My observations were yes naked prints sell, just need to flatten and spot finish.

The APUG master print show had a series of images from Tibet 20x24 in size, since the APUg conference over 10 orders for individual prints have been made.
Selling price $2200. can each *no edition* prints flattened only.

I would sell all my prints un matted as well , let the buyer decide whether to matt or frame. * you can make suggestions and show your work in a matted style that you feel is proper for your work *

Donald the selling price is totally dependent upon yourself and where you think you can go with the pricing.

kjsphoto · Jun 22, 2006

xtrout1 said:
Kevin Saitta,

I give you a lot of credit for setting up and selling your prints if this is what you want to do.
Many people like me make photographs and keep them in the dark. very few people get to see them. This too is my choice. (Not to say that I would not sell a print for the right price)
You on the otherhand decided to make a business out of this image making thing.

Good luck.

Thank you very much. Much appreciated...

jimgalli · Jun 22, 2006

c6h6o3 said:
Until you're established and people have an interest in your work solely because it's your work, I'm sorry to say that I think what's really *needed* is a low price. That, and relentless, even fanatical self promotion.

I believe it's 10% photography and 90% marketing.

The truest thing stated. I'm not willing to destroy the enjoyment of my hobby by going here, so I print what I want, and I usually give them away (or pile them up!) Some folks have the need to sell as gratification and self approval. Luckily, I don't. I don't need a dog pestering me all the time either, but that's another story

blansky · Jun 22, 2006

jimgalli said:
The truest thing stated. I'm not willing to destroy the enjoyment of my hobby by going here, so I print what I want, and I usually give them away (or pile them up!) Some folks have the need to sell as gratification and self approval.

And some people pursue a vocation/career in a field that interests them and in doing so make a living. How good a living depends on how proficient they are at the craft and how capable they are in marketing said craft.

That vocation can bring incredible enjoyment to them as well as to the people they sell their work to.

An aside to this is that the more people pay for something of artistic value very often the more enjoyment they get from it. A quirk of human nature.
Not always but it consistently happens.

Michael

BradS · Jun 22, 2006

blansky said:
And some people pursue a vocation/career in a field that interests them and in doing so make a living. How good a living depends on how proficient they are at the craft and how capable they are in marketing said craft.

That vocation can bring incredible enjoyment to them as well as to the people they sell their work to.

An aside to this is that the more people pay for something of artistic value very often the more enjoyment they get from it. A quirk of human nature.
Not always but it consistently happens.

Michael

ah...Michael, there's dog...eh, humping your leg....shoo him away man!

Papa Tango · Jun 22, 2006

kjsphoto said:
Do you see anywhere on my personal website where it says Open Edition? Do you?

I suggest you understand what you are talking about before putting your foot in mouth.

Every single print on my personal website is a limited edition print and as stated they are all sold matted and mounted. Yes I can read what I wrote and the images on my personal website are sold as listed and specified as it is said on my PERSONAL WEBSITE.

These people were referring to my ebay store so as expected you do even know what all the fuss was about. Did you even bother to read this thread? Probably not as it seems you just like most others just chime in and speak without getting all the facts straight.

Nowhere on my website do I even mention an OPEN EDITION print that is unmated or unmounted as EVERY SINGLE IMAGE on my website is a LIMITED EIDTION PRINT THAT IS MOUNTED AND MATTED AS DESCRIBED BY WHAT YOU COPIED AND PASTE below to the specified size as noted in the text that you read.

What an ass you are. You need to get over yourself.

Ryuji · Jun 23, 2006

On a completely different aspect, look at this:

http://www.silvergrain.org/g2/v/Unc...ts+Who+Want+to+Sell.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=2

It was probably made for painters, but photographers and non-painters in general can learn something from it. (Indeed, I found this in a sculptor's studio.)

(I tried to upload the JPEG directly on APUG but they didn't like the size...)

davetravis · Jun 23, 2006

OK, I'll chime in...
I agree with Mr. Carnie.
On the show circuit the competition is extreme. Something that might seem insignificant to me is a big deal to the customer, like flexibility. I tried all variations of presentation you can think of, but the best selling ones are mounted on same size archival foam board, without any mats...
That way the customer can choose the mats later to match their decor, because most of the time they're just looking for "wall decoration."
FWIW.
Long live Ciba!!!

What's really needed to sell prints?

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What's really needed to sell prints?