What's Best?

[emanded]

My 'calling' to convert to film properly is becoming stronger - so much so that I've plasterboarded out an outbuilding, put electric and water in and am about to put my benches in. So now I'm ready to go shopping for a darkroom!
I need to process 35mm, Xpan & 6x7 - my main question is, if I want prints that will 'knock my socks off' do I need to go for a Leitz or De Vere enlarger or both or is it purely the lens that makes the difference and any enlarger will do?
Also, to get the best print possible what other advice does anyone have on the rest of the darkroom and processes - paper, chemicals, toners etc.
I need to do this properly with the best equipment available so I don't need to upgrade at a later date.
-I'm new here so go easy!

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

At the prices of used gear you may as well get a 4x5 Durst or Devere as anything else. It won't make your photographs 'knock the socks' off anything, though. The equipment has, in truth, little to do with how good the photograph is. Good equipment is, however, easier to use, more reliable [not much of an issue with amateur use where wear and tear are minimal] and just more enjoyable to use. Sophisticated equipment can put you in better control and allow you more insight into what is going on.

As for enlarger lenses, Nikkor, Rodenstock and Schneider (and Minolta, Fuji, Computar, etc., etc.) give identical results.

A Jobo is nice if you are going to do color.

Start with and stay with stainless film tanks. Hewe's reels are the easiest to load.

A good easel is nice to have, but I use single-size easels for 90% of my prints.

A nice darkroom sink is worth every penny. My present darkroom is without one, and I miss it sorely.

The most important component of the well equipped darkroom is, of course, an f-stop timer.

 

[Bruce Osgood]

Well firstly, Welcome to APUG. There is a lot of information to be gained here and not necessarily from one person. Listen to them all and make your decisions.

As to your main question: "if I want prints that will 'knock my socks off' do I need to go for a Leitz or De Vere enlarger or both or is it purely the lens that makes the difference and any enlarger will do?"

Learn the Art of printing. It is not a mechanical thing nor is it done by the numbers. It is an Art and requires skill and talent. The brand of enlarger does not replace the ability to use it to its' fullest. However a more expensive lens is probably better than a less expensive lens. Spend what you're comfortable with.
There are a number of books that will give you insight to print making and APUG's own Les McLean has published a really fine book called Creative Black & White Photography.

As far as making the best print possible.... you tell me.

 

[srs5694]

It's hard to give advice because a lot of issues turn into matters of personal preference. For instance, some people like condenser enlargers whereas others swear by diffusion enlargers. (If you don't know the difference, don't worry too much yet; just know that these are two different ways to get an even source of illumination over your negative.) The only way to know which you prefer is to get experience with both types. You see the dilemma....

As to enlarger brands, they do matter up to a point -- or rather, the quality of construction and features can make a difference. There's substantial variability within each brand, though. The most important features of enlargers are their stability (to resist vibrations) and their alignment (if the alignment of the head is off, focus won't be constant across the area of the print). If you're buying used, the condition of the equipment will be as important as the brand, so your best bet is to buy locally and examine the equipment before purchase. If there are obvious non-cosmetic flaws, like a column that's obviously bent or uneven action on focus or head-height mechanisms, you can avoid it. If you're forced to buy by mail, you'll just have to take your chances.

Nicholas mentioned lenses, but I have a different take on it: The brand is less important than the number of elements. Most enlarger lenses have four or six elements. A few have three, and I know of one model that supposedly has five. Generally speaking, the more elements the better, so you should look for six-element lenses by respected manufacturers. Many (but not all) manufacturers give their six-element lenses "-on" suffixes (Rodagon, Componon, etc.) and four-element lenses "-ar" suffixes (Rogonar, Componar, etc.). Most eBay sellers don't provide this detail in their listings, so you've got to research the specific product you're buying. Also, sample-to-sample differences in enlarger lenses are reportedly quite big, so if you get a top-of-the-line lens and feel it's just not performing to your satisfaction, it could be you've got a bum sample. At today's prices, just buy another and keep the old one as a backup. As an anecdote, I'll add that I've got five 50mm enlarger lenses. The best and worst are both Nikons: The 4-element f/4 EL-Nikkor is the worst of my batch, while the 6-element f/2.8 EL-Nikkor is the best of them. That said, even the f/4 Nikon produces good enlargements up to at least 8x10; it'd be hard to tell apart prints from my lenses at this size.

Nicholas also mentioned using stainless steel film tanks and reels. Although I share his preference for this type, you should not that it's a preference. Some people prefer plastic. As with so many things, you'll just have to pick one type, try it, and if you're not satisfied or if you're curious enough, try the other.

 

[bdial]

When you get into the 4x5 enlarger realm, they're all meant for professional use. If the enlarger is properly aligned, with a good lens, it won't be the enlarger's fault if you don't get an excellent print.
Beond that, as stated, it's a matter of what machine you find easy to use, and what sort of light source you like, condenser, diffusion, cold light, or point source. Each has it's own advantages and disadvantages. One good place to explore what's "best" is Post Exposure by Ctein.

I think it's also worth noting that Edward Weston did most of his printing with a light bulb and a contact frame in a darkroom smaller than some closets. It's not extaordinary equipment that produces knock-your-socks-off prints, but extraordinary vision coupled with mastery of the materials.

 

[2F/2F]

If you have any sort of budget, might as well go for a killer piece of machinery like a DeVere or Durst. The lens is the only thing that really makes the picture, but for a relatively mild investment compared to a Beseler or Omega, you will be printing in luxury. Same reason it doesn't make much sense to get anything other than a Sinar in today's 4x5 market.

Don't skimp on lenses in order to get one, though.

 

[jeroldharter]

Get a good, used 4x5 enlarger or else you will want one. I use 2 Beselers.

Build the largest sink you can, 30 inches deep, ideally 12 feet or longer. A tempered water source is nice (low flow model of Hass Intellifaucet). Several tempered water outlets. A shorter smaller sink at the end of the main sink for a print washer, so the the top of the print washer ends up at sink height. A floor drain for the washer is a nice convenience. A waterproof backsplash that drains into the sink is nice.

I like bright halogen lights above the sink and other viewing areas. I also have a dimmer set of incandescent ambient room lights.

Use dust friendly materials like laminate, vinyl, semi-gloss paint. Don't use unsealed plywood and dimensional lumber.

I have a used, oil-less air compressor to dust off negatives. Others have described a setup with a liquid nitrogen tank in an adjacent room with a tube and nozzle ready for use for negative dusting. I think that would be the coolest way to go if you are handy.

An industrial anti-fatigue mat is a luxury along the sink and in front of the enlarger.

If your budget allows, get Schneider or Rodenstock Apo enlarging lenses or else you will wonder if they are really better. I have the Schneider and they seem hard to beat.

You don't say where you live, but from your language I suspect Great Britain. Then you are lucky that you have pounds to spend and can by all the RH Designs products reasonably: StopClock Pro, Flasher, and the new Process timer.

The Jobo is nice if you use roll film. I prefer BTZS tubes for 4x5 film.

Run speaker wire into the darkroom but leave components in an adjacent room so you don't have to worry about the light, dust, and heat they generate/attract.

Put a large greaseboard on the wall adjacent to your enlarger for keeping on the fly printing notes and also more permanent reference data such and unit conversions, mixing formulas, etc.

Plenty of undercounter storage for different sizes of paper and paper safes. I assume you have a separate area for mounting, etc.

A good ventilation system is nice, especially if you do smelly things like brown toner.

 

[Phillip P. Dimor]

You're bound to get a million different answers but i'm sure they're all good.
I'm going to put my 2 cents in and suggest you get a versalab parallel or similar to align whichever enlarger you end up going with. I've a lazerspot, it is the one invaluable device that I own.. I use it before each session to check the alignment. I use it to calibrate rangefinders, etc. I paid $20 on ebay, not sure if they still make them but it's the one thing I need.

A properly-aligned enlarger with good glass is most important in my opinion.

 

[MattKing]

Get a good, used 4x5 enlarger or else you will want one. I use 2 Beselers.

Build the largest sink you can, 30 inches deep, ideally 12 feet or longer. A tempered water source is nice (low flow model of Hass Intellifaucet). Several tempered water outlets. A shorter smaller sink at the end of the main sink for a print washer, so the the top of the print washer ends up at sink height. A floor drain for the washer is a nice convenience. A waterproof backsplash that drains into the sink is nice.

I like bright halogen lights above the sink and other viewing areas. I also have a dimmer set of incandescent ambient room lights.

Use dust friendly materials like laminate, vinyl, semi-gloss paint. Don't use unsealed plywood and dimensional lumber.

I have a used, oil-less air compressor to dust off negatives. Others have described a setup with a liquid nitrogen tank in an adjacent room with a tube and nozzle ready for use for negative dusting. I think that would be the coolest way to go if you are handy.

An industrial anti-fatigue mat is a luxury along the sink and in front of the enlarger.

If your budget allows, get Schneider or Rodenstock Apo enlarging lenses or else you will wonder if they are really better. I have the Schneider and they seem hard to beat.

You don't say where you live, but from your language I suspect Great Britain. Then you are lucky that you have pounds to spend and can by all the RH Designs products reasonably: StopClock Pro, Flasher, and the new Process timer.

The Jobo is nice if you use roll film. I prefer BTZS tubes for 4x5 film.

Run speaker wire into the darkroom but leave components in an adjacent room so you don't have to worry about the light, dust, and heat they generate/attract.

Put a large greaseboard on the wall adjacent to your enlarger for keeping on the fly printing notes and also more permanent reference data such and unit conversions, mixing formulas, etc.

Plenty of undercounter storage for different sizes of paper and paper safes. I assume you have a separate area for mounting, etc.

A good ventilation system is nice, especially if you do smelly things like brown toner.

Jerold (Dr. Harter ):

You should protect the copyright on this, because it is worth it's weight in gold (or platinum, or palladium, etc.).

I think the same advice applies to a Beseler 23C or other good MF enlarger, if your film format is restricted to 6x7 or 6x9, but I'd love to have the room for a 4x5 enlarger too.

Matt

Matt

 

[emanded]

Thanks

Thanks guys - you can't buy experience, I really appreciate your input.
Yes I am from the UK and from what I can tell there seems to be a bit of a resurgence of film here. Also, ebay and dealers (much more expensive) have an abundance of equipment for sale and hopefully your advice will help me sift through all that stuff.
I'm under no illusions that it is the image and the 'art' of printing that will produce what I'm looking for - I just want to use the best equipment to get me there.
Keep throwing the advice at me and I'll soak it up
Cheers
Joe

 

[Nick Zentena]

Almost anything that can hold the lens and film in the right place and steady will work.

OTOH a nicer unit may be easier to work.

OTOH once you get to pro grade the differences are pretty minor.

How big are you going to print?

 

[emanded]

Genarally on A4 or A3 paper (upto 16"x 12") although my easel is 20" x 16" so maybe occasionally upto this.
BTW Jerold why do I need a sink 12' long? I had planned on a darkroom bespoke sink about 4-6" deep and 4-5' long and a bench for trays. My darkroom has an 'L' shaped wet side of 10' x 5'.

 

[Nick Zentena]

Definetely get a 4x5 then. They tend to be stronger/steadier which will help with the bigger prints.

 

[RobC]

As you are in the UK, I would suggest you get a durst enlarger. They are top quality and plentiful on the second hand market. Beseler are not common in the UK. De'Vere are not so common even though they are a british enlarger.

Which model? An L1200 is a 4x5 enlarger which is big and heavy. It would benefit hugely from a wall mount but wall mounts are difficult to come by although I managed to find one recently. However, if you are only printing upto 6x7cm negs then an L1200 is really overkill. A durst M805 or Modular 70 or M670 in that order would be what I recommend for what you want to do.

The M805 is a pro model capable of printing upto 6x9 negs. The Modular 70 and M670 will print upto 6x7cm. I also have a modular 70 with both a dichroic colour head and and a condenser B+W head.

If you PM me with your email address, I will send you a late Durst brochure which gives you information on all these enlargers.

M805 and Modular 70 sell for high prices in second hand shops but can be had more cheaply on ebay. The Modular 70 Pro is a bit bigger than the basic version which has a shorter column. The M670 is smaller and will only print upto 12x16 on the baseboard which may be limiting in future, but if you never want to print big, then its a good enlarger.

http://www.northernphoto.co.uk/ is one source, they used to be the UK durst service centre. Terry is a durst expert and can help with parts, negative masks etc.

http://www.secondhanddarkroom.co.uk/ are a second hand shop but their prices are high compared to ebay.

If you can find a good one, the M805 would be the one to go for, otherwise a Modular 70. The bigger L1200 are very cheap but you are likely to have to pick it up and getting all the mixing boxes and other parts you may need can add to price considerably, so if you decided you want a big enlarger, then try and get one which has mixing boxes for 35mm and 6x7 as well as 4x5.
Also make sure you get the relevant transformer with any purchase.

 

[Dave Miller]

Welcome to the forum. As has been said above each of us will come up with a different solution to your question. We have a thread somewhere on this forum that shows many contributors darkroom. As for equipment by all means buy the best you can afford and find. I use a Durst 1200 enlarger, which I recommend, however the best equipment in the world will not automatically produce quality prints; that’s where your expertise will come into play.

 

[bill spears]

A vote for the 'Kaiser' enlargers here. Very good German made quality and great modular system.
I used one for 20 yrs with much enjoyment.
Recently bought a secondhand devere 504 though and dont think I could ever do better.

Bill

 

[Peter De Smidt]

Look into a 1980s (or newer) De Vere 504. The only downside is the space required. All important planes can be aligned with set screws, and the chassis is as stable as a brick outhouse. Plus, they're still supported by Odyssey Sales.

 

[RobC]

regardless of make of make and model, what you should be looking for is:

capability of being able to align it accurately and having it stay in alignment through different head heights. Wall mount aids greatly with this. Also having adjustments in lens stage side to side and front to back although most don't adjust front to bak easily.

Light tight. I tried an LPL 4x5 enlarger once. It let light out every where. Returned it to shop as being useless.

fine focus knob should be smooth as some are sticky and a pain to adjust accurately.

head should stay in place and not creep once set in position.

if it has a rack on the back for adjusting height, the rack teeth should be in good condition so it moves smoothly up and down. Durst still supply replacement racks cheaply.

if it has a metal spring (like durst) it should be in good condition without cracked edges. These are difficult to find and replace.

The negative carrier should be good design. This is where durst excel.

Some enlargers have built in analysers. These can be useful to get approximately correct contrast and exposure first time. Most don't have them and they are not absolutely required because if you have got film exposure and dev correct, you will soon be able to get first paper exposure and contrast right anyway.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

Well, there is one bit of advice that seems to be universal: "You should use the same equipment I use."

Unless you know what other equipment has been used by the poster, and the level of use the equipment gets, there can be trouble:

• "Get a Federal 212 Enlarger. They are the finest made and the Fedar lenses are sharp as a tack. I have used one all my life, I have never used anything else, and I never will. My mother gave me mine for Christmas when I was 12, and in her dear memory ... dead these 50 years ..."

• "Get an Eseco with a power easel with the 500' paper roll attachment. Nothing else will work. Not as far as I am concerned. Not if you are printing wedding pictures 24 hours a day, 7 days a week."

• "Get a LeiZeiDurDev. They are the finest made and the UltraApoXLogon lenses are sharp as a tack. Only three photographers in the UK can afford one, and as I am sure you aren't going to be the fourth, I can recomend it unconditionally. If however, your last name _is_ Taxis and that isn't what you drive, and dropping the price of a new Aston on an enlarger doesn't seem out of line, then you may be happier with a Federal Model 212 - I do not wish my status in owning the Marque of my current equipment to be diminished."

• "I have an Empire Builder 306 LS/MFT. I was told to get one by the members of this group. Since I so desperately want to fit in I bought one. I don't feel so lonely now."

• "I finally switched from my old enlarger. I have tried Durst, Omega, Devere, Wild Heeburg, Zeiss -- none of them compare to the quality of a Federal."

• "It really doesn't matter a monkey's bum. Get the cheapest gear that will work for you and put the money in a retirement account. I've got 12/6- to see me through to my grave. Got any spare coin?"

... things done while waiting for lunch to cook and while avoiding mowing the lawn ...

 

[RobC]

Well, there is one bit of advice that seems to be universal: "You should use the same equipment I use."

Unless you know what other equipment has been used by the poster, and the level of use the equipment gets, there can be trouble:

... things done while waiting for lunch to cook and while avoiding mowing the lawn ...

Well I've used Meopta, De'Vere 504, Meopta, LPL, Focomat V35 and various Dursts. The DeVere was a bag of spanners but it was in a college lab and may just have been a bad one. For just 35mm the Focomat was a really nice enlarger except the auto focus was bust and changing aperture manually would shift focus as well. i.e. it was buggered and therefore a pain to use. I'm pretty sure if it was working properly it would have been a good enlarger but as others have found out, when they don't work properly or are out of alignment, they are a bugger to fix. The LPL was basically junk. The Meopta was agricultural and leaked light(can easily be sorted) but it worked OK. The Dursts are the best I've used. The L1200 is a superb enlarger best suited to medium format and 4x5. I wouldn't want one for 35mm format only. It's just too big and you loose the negatives in the neg holder cos its big enough for 4x5. Hence recomendation for M805 or Modular 70. But if the OP is consdering 4x5 in the future, then an L1200 is a very good option, especially if you can get a wall mount for it.

 

[yellowcat]

One point worth mentioning is that the room lights should be incandescent not fluorescents as these can have a persistent afterglow when they are turned off.

 

[Martin Aislabie]

What’s the best – there isn’t one straight answer

Starting with the Enlarger
The first real questions is – are you sure you won’t be going larger than 6x7 any time soon (say the next 5 years) ?
I ask because almost all of us suffer from format drift – we start at 35mm, move to MF and then into LF.
However, regularly printing 35mm on a 5x4 enlarger is a lot more effort than on a smaller machine.
I have 2 enlargers – one for 5x4 and the other for 6x9 and smaller
So if you don’t intend to go up in format sizes any time soon – stay with the smaller format enlargers – they are both cheaper and less cumbersome to use.

The second major question is – how much service do you want out of your enlarger?
It’s a good way of working out if you should consider new or second hand equipment.
There is loads of good second hand stuff out there on EBAY and places like Second Hand Darkrooms
However, if you are going to be doing it for a long time then a new enlarger is also worth considering R K Photographic are one of the best places to shop (http://thedarkroom.co.uk)
However, if you are going down the 5x4 route then second hand is the way to go regardless of how much work you intend to put through your enlarger. They are professional machines and you will never wear one out – but as I wrote earlier you pay for it.

The main brands of enlarger is the UK are

35mm & MF
Kaiser
Meopta
LPK
Durst

LF
Durst
DeVere

They all make fine equipment capable of producing fabulous work – it becomes a personal preference.


Enlarger Lens
The best enlarger lenses are the APO lenses from with Rodenstock or Schneider available from Robert White - http://www.robertwhite.co.uk
However, almost no one stretches the performance envelope of lenses enough to differentiate between the APO lenses and the standard Rodagon or Componon-S equivalents.
Again, enlarger lenses are available second hand but as these are your most significant lenses in your system, the value for money argument tilts more towards buying new.
For 35mm you need a 50mm enlarger lens
For the XPan & 6x7 you need and 80mm lens

As for chemicals & papers – start with Ilford Multigrade RC Paper and learn the ropes.
Most people agree that Fibre prints are superior but as you are starting work with RC first and then as your skills grow move up to Fibre.
Ilford chemicals are amongst the best and also most common in the UK.

However, in my opinion, the best way of making “knock-out” prints is to either join a local colleague in Sept on an evening Photographic course or to find a darkroom buddy to teach you how to print.
There are specialist printing courses, Les McLean is highly recommended (http://www.lesmcleanphotography.com) but you need to learn the basics first

Good luck

Martin