What's a good, cheap printer for 8x10 digital negatives?

What's a good, inexpensive printer, for reasonably high quality 8x10 digital negatives? Will any old crappy $90 photo printer work?

I want it to be low price as I'm not sure how much use it will get; may depend on my satisfaction with some of the processes I want to try.

At the moment I'm not really interested in getting a wider format printer like the R28xx or 38xx from Epson, etc, but I would like to be able to make effective digital negatives for alt processes.

8x10 is my preferred print size.

If there is something that has the quality of the wider format, higher end printers, but is limited to 8x10, that would probably be a bonus as I could then also make regular prints... but it's not really a priority; alt process digital negatives is my main interest.

Does not look like you found an answer, but I'm interested in this as well. Anyone?

I use the Epson 1400 for workshops when I am away from my house. It is relatively inexpensive. It is sharp and you can tweak it well enough with QTR to get a nice pure palladium negative profile.

clay said:

I use the Epson 1400 for workshops when I am away from my house. It is relatively inexpensive. It is sharp and you can tweak it well enough with QTR to get a nice pure palladium negative profile.

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Thanks for the feedback Clay. I'll look into this printer.

Jon

walter23 said:

What's a good, inexpensive printer, for reasonably high quality 8x10 digital negatives? Will any old crappy $90 photo printer work?

I want it to be low price as I'm not sure how much use it will get; may depend on my satisfaction with some of the processes I want to try.

At the moment I'm not really interested in getting a wider format printer like the R28xx or 38xx from Epson, etc, but I would like to be able to make effective digital negatives for alt processes.

8x10 is my preferred print size.

If there is something that has the quality of the wider format, higher end printers, but is limited to 8x10, that would probably be a bonus as I could then also make regular prints... but it's not really a priority; alt process digital negatives is my main interest.

Click to expand...

Take a look at the Epson C88. It's been a while seen I've used one but it will work.

Don

My generic recommendation would be a pigment printer with at least 6 colors. I would also recommend an Epson if one is new to this as there is a large community of users and better software compatibility.

I recently purchased a epson r1900. I haven't quite got the digital negatives right yet but I am getting closer. Once I figure it out I'll better be able to recommend it. At this point though I am on the fence.

Cheers,
Reathel

Thanks guys. I'm leaning towards an Epson printer. Maybe next month.....

pschwart said:

My generic recommendation would be a pigment printer with at least 6 colors. I would also recommend an Epson if one is new to this as there is a large community of users and better software compatibility.

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Hello Philip, could you further elaborate on which model or models might be a good for a beginner. I'm not going to tell you that I know anything about digital negatives after reading about PDN, QTR, or any of the thousand pages of sites on digital negative making. Suffice to say I tried it with an Epson R1900 and it the result was pizza wheel marks and lines, so it was sent back to Epson. Now I intend to get a new older Epson printer and start simply from the beginning. I have and older Photoshop and don't have the money to get a new copy and I'm very learned on the version I have. Somewhere most people started with an Epson 12^^ model printer but I would consider any of the early models. I just want to get started and don't intend to jump into a 3800 with CS5. I would like to make digital negatives smaller than 8x10.

After reading about Quadtone Rip and Precision Digital Negatives I'm more confused than ever. Isn't there a way to make a digital negative on Pictorico from an older printer with an older version of photoshop without having a masters degree in physics? If you can send me a PM with only a model number I would be very much appreciative. Maybe a suggestion of which settings I should consider using.

Curt

The raison d'tre for PDN, QTR, and all the variants is to achieve sufficient UV blocking for paper white. The Epson R800/1800 are the only inexpensive desktop printers I have ever used that can provide this density without resorting to those strategies. If you can find an R1800 you can print very fine negatives without colorizing or controlling individual inks with a RIP. A transmission densitometer will still be a tremendous help in creating the necessary correction curve.
QTR is challenging, but using PDN to determine an appropriate color for a specific printer is a simple task (but note: not all printers can achieve paper white with colorized negatives); the documentation is excellent and Mark maintains a Yahoo forum for support and sharing.

Curt said:

Hello Philip, could you further elaborate on which model or models might be a good for a beginner. I'm not going to tell you that I know anything about digital negatives after reading about PDN, QTR, or any of the thousand pages of sites on digital negative making. Suffice to say I tried it with an Epson R1900 and it the result was pizza wheel marks and lines, so it was sent back to Epson. Now I intend to get a new older Epson printer and start simply from the beginning. I have and older Photoshop and don't have the money to get a new copy and I'm very learned on the version I have. Somewhere most people started with an Epson 12^^ model printer but I would consider any of the early models. I just want to get started and don't intend to jump into a 3800 with CS5. I would like to make digital negatives smaller than 8x10.

After reading about Quadtone Rip and Precision Digital Negatives I'm more confused than ever. Isn't there a way to make a digital negative on Pictorico from an older printer with an older version of photoshop without having a masters degree in physics? If you can send me a PM with only a model number I would be very much appreciative. Maybe a suggestion of which settings I should consider using.

Curt

Click to expand...

correction -- just reread my posting. I meant to say that a reflection densitometer would be useful. A transmission densitometer capable of reading UV is also helpful, but the reflection unit is what you need for reading
step tablets.

pschwart said:

The raison d'tre for PDN, QTR, and all the variants is to achieve sufficient UV blocking for paper white. The Epson R800/1800 are the only inexpensive desktop printers I have ever used that can provide this density without resorting to those strategies. If you can find an R1800 you can print very fine negatives without colorizing or controlling individual inks with a RIP. A transmission densitometer will still be a tremendous help in creating the necessary correction curve.
QTR is challenging, but using PDN to determine an appropriate color for a specific printer is a simple task (but note: not all printers can achieve paper white with colorized negatives); the documentation is excellent and Mark maintains a Yahoo forum for support and sharing.

Click to expand...

I have a transmission densitometer and a transmission and reflection model that I've never used. I'm looking for a printer to get started. When I have the basics down I'll get a more advanced model. I would jump right into a 3800 but the financial situation isn't what it used to be and there is belt tightening here. It looks like the PDN and a new printer is what's recommended for those who aren't faint of wallet.

Is a reflection densitometer used for reading the paper white on a final print? Are the results of UV blocking that subtle?

Thanks for the valuable information, I was going to forget the entire digital negative making but I changed my mind now that some time has passed since the R1900 problem I had. I just don't want to spend a lot of money with nothing to show for it. It's not for my income, it's my personal art.

Curt

The reflection densitometer is used to read the step tablets you will be printing while creating a correction curve. The object is to derive a correction curve that delivers linear tones from dmax to paper white.

Curt said:

I have a transmission densitometer and a transmission and reflection model that I've never used. I'm looking for a printer to get started. When I have the basics down I'll get a more advanced model. I would jump right into a 3800 but the financial situation isn't what it used to be and there is belt tightening here. It looks like the PDN and a new printer is what's recommended for those who aren't faint of wallet.

Is a reflection densitometer used for reading the paper white on a final print? Are the results of UV blocking that subtle?

Thanks for the valuable information, I was going to forget the entire digital negative making but I changed my mind now that some time has passed since the R1900 problem I had. I just don't want to spend a lot of money with nothing to show for it. It's not for my income, it's my personal art.

Curt

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pschwart said:

A transmission densitometer will still be a tremendous help in creating the necessary correction curve.

Click to expand...

A follow up question on the above. Could you elaborate on how this is done? I played around with QTR in the earlier days (2008'ish) and it was a mess! I couldn't understand how to apply Ron Reeder's methods (from his essays). I'm considering picking up a copy of his ebook.

stormbytes said:

A follow up question on the above. Could you elaborate on how this is done? I played around with QTR in the earlier days (2008'ish) and it was a mess! I couldn't understand how to apply Ron Reeder's methods (from his essays). I'm considering picking up a copy of his ebook.

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For $10 you can't miss.

You can also use a scanner if you don't have a reflection densitometer.

Don Bryant

Curt said:

Is a reflection densitometer used for reading the paper white on a final print? Are the results of UV blocking that subtle?

Curt

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As Philip said, to measure and linearize.

But actually, with regard to reading paper white, I find the densitometer keeps me honest about whether I've gotten a real white and also if I have cleared my test print thoroughly.

Best, Ben

pschwart said:

The raison d'tre for PDN, QTR, and all the variants is to achieve sufficient UV blocking for paper white. The Epson R800/1800 are the only inexpensive desktop printers I have ever used that can provide this density without resorting to those strategies. If you can find an R1800 you can print very fine negatives without colorizing or controlling individual inks with a RIP. A transmission densitometer will still be a tremendous help in creating the necessary correction curve.
QTR is challenging, but using PDN to determine an appropriate color for a specific printer is a simple task (but note: not all printers can achieve paper white with colorized negatives); the documentation is excellent and Mark maintains a Yahoo forum for support and sharing.

Click to expand...

Also looking for an epson printer to do digital negatives. How do I find Mark and the yahoo forum? Thanks.

jaimeb82 said:

Also looking for an epson printer to do digital negatives. How do I find Mark and the yahoo forum? Thanks.

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Dead Link Removed

"What's a good, cheap printer for 8x10 digital negatives?"

Another thought, why not align yourself to a quality lab? Wouldn't this free up time & funds to make more photographs?

I calibrate my monitors each month for the lab I use. If I transmit an order to them by 10 AM even 11 AM it's at my door the next day! The types of printing available from the lab not many can/could do at studio/home. Canvas prints are quite popular as not many can be made at other spots.

Unless printing is a task you want to learn! Then go for it!

I find that with only 24 hrs. to each day I like to spend some time with my family and other things.

Thought I would mention this as it gives another thought on how people can view their photographs and how the maker can delegate this task to a quality lab.

Good luck.

wclark5179 said:

"What's a good, cheap printer for 8x10 digital negatives?"

Another thought, why not align yourself to a quality lab? Wouldn't this free up time & funds to make more photographs?

I calibrate my monitors each month for the lab I use. If I transmit an order to them by 10 AM even 11 AM it's at my door the next day! The types of printing available from the lab not many can/could do at studio/home. Canvas prints are quite popular as not many can be made at other spots.

Unless printing is a task you want to learn! Then go for it!

I find that with only 24 hrs. to each day I like to spend some time with my family and other things.

Thought I would mention this as it gives another thought on how people can view their photographs and how the maker can delegate this task to a quality lab.

Good luck.

Click to expand...

It's kind of tough to get most labs to produce alternative process prints such as palladium, cyanotype, or van dyke brown. I'm just saying ...

Get your self on eBay and by a Epson 2200. You should be able to get it for $150-250. I have made negs up to 12x16 on it. I do platinum negatives. Pro printer at a cheap print.

Well, as you may have surmised based on the replies so far, there is no simple or unique answer. You didn't specify which process(es) you are considering taking a run at. Keep in mind that different alternative processes may require different UV negative densities in order to ensure paper white. This means that one printer (and inkset) may work great for one individual (and process), but may not be exactly what you are looking for.

If you're sure that you won't have any need to produce anything larger than 8x10s in the immediate future and you want to do it as cheaply as possible, I would start with a basic 8.5" (most likely dye based) printer and run some tests (e.g. PDN, composite black, etc) with your process. You may get lucky and be able to use the printer 'as is' for your specific process. If that doesn't work, you could purchase a set of refillable ink cartridges and a pigment inkset. The pigment inks should provide the additional negative density to get the job done, without causing any issues in a printer designed for dye inks. I would recommend using an Epson printer that is supported by QTR, as it will ultimately allow you the most flexibility in the event that you must resort to writing custom profiles (an art form unto itself). While this all could prove a little (or a lot) time-consuming, it's going to be the most financially economical way to get your feet wet in the murky waters of digital negatives.

Good Luck,
Jeff

I have an epson artisan 810 and that one won't print on transparencies... it just spits them out blank. I've looked around a bit and most of the printers people are mentioning here (C88, 2200, R3000) do not support printing on transparencies, according to epson's website... is there some trick to this?

Thanks!

As long as a printer can feed the film correctly, there is no reason that it cannot print on transparency film. The ink for a specific model may not adhere well or provide sufficient UV blocking, but that is another story. I don't think I have ever seen an Epson driver that provided a specific media type selection for transparency film but that doesn't really matter -- you just calibrate your process using another setting.

Ben said:

I have an epson artisan 810 and that one won't print on transparencies... it just spits them out blank. I've looked around a bit and most of the printers people are mentioning here (C88, 2200, R3000) do not support printing on transparencies, according to epson's website... is there some trick to this?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

You may need to place sheet of white paper together with the transparency so the printer can see the edge. I used to have this problem with my HP B9180.