What Would You Do?

I have a neighboring young lady, whom I've known since she was a toddler, babysat for my wife and I over the years and for whom I have high regard. She's been aware that I'm a retired PJ, still playing with my cameras. She walked to my home yesterday with a request that I shoot her wedding next summer.

She's a hard working youngster, two part time jobs and a part time college student. We're all lower middle class in this neighborhood and she's unable/unwilling to spring for a professional wedding photographer. She claims that her least expensive wedding quote was well into the thousands of dollars, which she feels is way beyond her means.

I expressed my reluctance to do the job, for all of the oft heard reasons (a once-in-a-lifetime deal, only done two other nuptuals, undermining professional wedding photogs, etc.), but she is insistant that she trusts my abilities and would pay me what she could. I'd be more than happy to do the job to the best of my ability, as a gift to her, if her folks could pick up the cost of film/processing/prints/album, etc. I'd pick all that up myself, but I'm in no financial position to do that, either.

My guilt stems from the fact that I'm undercutting working wedding pros and really don't want to choke this job (highly unlikely, but ALWAYS possible). I do understand that margins are slim for working pros, but also feel there should be a way for low income folks to record major life events at an affordable price. When speaking with me yesterday, she told me a friend of hers paid $1800 for her high school senior picture package....HUH?

Your opinion on the situation would be appreciated.

Jo

jolefler said:

I have a neighboring young lady, ...
My guilt stems from the fact that I'm undercutting working wedding pros and really don't want to choke this job (highly unlikely, but ALWAYS possible). I do understand that margins are slim for working pros, but also feel there should be a way for low income folks to record major life events at an affordable price. When speaking with me yesterday, she told me a friend of hers paid $1800 for her high school senior picture package....HUH?
Your opinion on the situation would be appreciated.

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You have NO obligation to support your - or ANY wedding photographer. If they choose to price themselves out of the market - which is exactly what is happening here - they must accept the responsibility for their choice and action, and accept the loss of business.

This girl is free to choose any photographer ... without the least trace of "guilt".

jolefler said:

My guilt stems from the fact that I'm undercutting working wedding pros

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Whilst you may be undercutting other photographers, if she can't afford them, you're not taking work away from them.

I have done a couple of weddings for friends but they were told right from the start that I am not a wedding photographer and it will be done my way.

In your situation I would do it (and have done it).



Steve.

I don't see how you are taking work away from a high end pro because she dosen't have money to pay a high end pro. I am a portrait photographer but I do an occasional wedding, usualy for kids I have known for many years. They ane mostly broke students but I feel they still deserve good photos of the wedding. I will shoot a lot of digital and a couple roles of B&W. I give them the disc and at least one good B&W print as a wedding gift. They can take the disc and have enlargements made later when they can pay for it. My expense is some gas, a disc, a bit of film and paper.

On the other hand, I will not do a low end wedding (what we call a "hundered dollar wonder") for anyone I don't know if I feel they have money to pay a wedding shooter. They just seem to want you to work for free and GIVE them the world for nothing even when they have plenty of money.

I don't feel shooting a wedding on the cheep or free of charge is hurting anyone if that wedding would not be photographed because of lack of money or would be done by "Uncle George and his new digi toy"

I get ticked when I am asked to do a low ball shoot when I see a 2K dress, 1K flowers, 10k reception hall etc.. but they want a $300-500 wedding package with engagement photos, bridal portrait, candids, books etc. I won't do that but I have no problem helping out kids just starting out on a small budget.

P.S. Many wedding guys keep prices high to avoid the small weddings. There is no profit in the actual wedding, the money is made in the books and prints they sell later. Low end weddings don't come back for books and enlargements later.

I am a part-time professional who serves just such a market. The sub-$1000 market, specifically to address the inability of many young couples to afford someone other than "uncle Joe". I shoot digital mainly, but offer film as a choice. I know a couple who will probably be getting married next year who have no money to spare. I'll probably shoot that wedding gratis, if it happens, but probably won't go all-out and give them the exact same stuff I do with paying couples. A nice B&G portrait, some pics of family and friends, etc., is all they want and that's fine. So you may want to ask this gal if that's all she really wants and maybe save yourself the time, effort and expense of taking pictures that nobody will want.

As you've known her a long time it's not as if you're deliberately trying to take work away from others.

I've known a number of wedding photographers over the years, and compared to many commercial & advertising photographers some make huge mark ups and profits for what they do. Many use stringers to shoot additional weddins for them paying the other photographers peanuts.

There is a need sometimes for photographers to be a little fairer not everyone can afford the rip-off prices many charge. When my sister got married I paid the photographer a fair sum to shoot the wedding, and he gave me the films at the reception. Everyone was happy.

Ian

I agree with everything said above. I have shot a few weddings for friends for the cost of supplies only. They were very pleased with the results. My stepson hired a pro for his wedding at a cost of almost $5000. I shot a few rolls of b&w with my century graphic, made some 8X10's and 11X14's and gave them to the new couple as a wedding gift. Guess which photos hang in their living room?

Shoot the wedding. When people look at the pics, she will always say, "these were done by my neighbour Jo. He said he's not a pro, but I just love them -and he wouldn't accept any money from me! What a great guy!" As Mastercard says "Priceless".

Rick.

I'd do it for her and give her my best effort.
It is a shame for her to be denied a nice album of her wedding because of her personal economic situation. As was, more or less, said - a wedding photographer's market is geared towards those with the means to drop thousands and thousands of dollars on the big day without flinching too much (or at all)

I'd concur with the general opinion here; she trusts you, wants you to take the pictures, and can't afford a pro wedding photographer in any case. I say do it, enjoy it, put it in your portfolio, and be happy about it.

I know plenty of lawyers who do pro bono work; why shouldn't photographers?

kavandje said:

. . . . . . she trusts you, wants you to take the pictures, . . . .

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That's well put.

You taking the images probably means more to here, she obviously respects you and will also feel more at easy. Because you know er you'llprobably be able to make images that mean more to her and her family

Ian

Yes to everything said above. I have a friend who is a sought after and highly paid wedding photographer and when she talks to kids with little to no money to spend for photography, she refers them to one of the local college and tells them to ask one of the professors for a student photographer recommendation.

Free or at cost?

jmolligo said:

I'd do it for her and give her my best effort.
It is a shame for her to be denied a nice album of her wedding because of her personal economic situation. As was, more or less, said - a wedding photographer's market is geared towards those with the means to drop thousands and thousands of dollars on the big day without flinching too much (or at all)

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Sounds to me like they need to define what she wants. If she is saying she's poor, and the photographer can't afford to give away the processing costs, something's gotta give. That's where it'd be great to have a digital option. Shoot for "free" and give them a CD. They can do what they wish with it and at minimal cost.

jolefler said:

My guilt stems from the fact that I'm undercutting working wedding pros and really don't want to choke this job (highly unlikely, but ALWAYS possible).

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Are you really undercutting wedding pros? Your friend has already said that all quotes were beyond her budget. So you can presume she would never hire anyone if it were not for you.

She's a friend. You're balancing the difficult line between business and friendship, which has a host of more important ethical issues than undercutting working pros. If I may be blunt for a second, the fact that you fear choking this job indicates that you are not a veteran wedding photographer. So I don't think you are really competing with pros.

IMHO, you could be undercutting pros if you were to actively sollicit people getting married and doing it for a song. But that would be just a bad business model. You'd never make money, and not everyone would necessarily like the result.

What you should really consider right now is instead: how much energy are you willing to put into this activity, and making sure that the bride's expectations are not beyond what you are willing to offer.

Too many people would like to have professional results on a slim budget. Make sure everyone understands that it's never going to happen. There's a reason why good professional photographers charge what they charge: it's HARD to do good work! There is of course a sizable amount of overpriced crap, but people should know better than to hire someone blindly.

jolefler said:

I have a neighboring young lady, whom I've known since she was a toddler, babysat for my wife and I over the years and for whom I have high regard.......

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Do it! She will always thank you for it.

Maybe you can just do some formal shots for a good deal, and not cover the entire day. Tell them to have their friends bring their digitals and shoot candids. It would be easy, would give you an excuse to do it for cheap, and also take the stress of shooting all day for practically nothing off of you. Also, formals would be a *lot* easier and quicker for you to edit due to sheer volume and the similarity of each shot.

Or vice verse. With your professional background (good excuse!), you can concentrate on the candids, while she hires a wedding photographer proper for a short day to do the formals. She might be able to afford that a little better.

I recently quoted a couple (friends of mine, and the bride is a photographer) $600 for shooting a relatively low-key vow renewal digitally, formally and journalistically, and providing a CD of edited, adjusted images. Much of the groom's family had missed the wedding, so less then a year later, they were doing part two. Their wedding shots were not to their liking, and did not include a lot of important people because they simply were not there. As it turned out, when they asked me to do it, they were thinking I would say two or three hundred. I wish I could have afforded to do it for that, but we are talking probably 20 to 30 hours of work if shot digitally, or lots of lab fees if shot film. I simply can't afford to not get paid for the equivalent of 3/4-week of work it at this point in my life!

Being a photographer, she perfectly understood. Still: I thought $600 *was* a bargain basement price for everything, considering for a full-on wedding it would be a $2,000 bottom of the barrel price. It is hard to be somewhat professional with friends, but I had to say I could not do it. As a result, I get $0, and she gets photos from a friend that is doing it for free (with not much photographic experience), while she would have preferred to have mine. Neither of us gets what we want/need! Too bad, as I really like this woman and she deserves the pix she wants. I simply can't afford to put 30 hours of work into something that will actually cost me money. (You may be in a different position than me financially, however, and/or have more free time!) Now I regret not just asking $200 or $300, and being fine with it. I feel like a prick, and hope to god she gets the pix she wanted in the end. If it is a photographic disaster for her in the end, I will feel even worse.

I honestly think that the best policy is not to work for acquaintances if at all possible. If you must, maybe take efforts to make sure they know that it is not "pro" work and you are not obliged to deliver anything, let them cover materials, and give them the labor for free.

So, to answer the question "What would do?"

I would probably refrain from shooting any formals, and just cover the event journalistically with no obligation for anything else (formals, posie posie pix, gotta get Uncle Ernie with long-lost brother Heironymus, etc.), shoot completely but sparingly, give them pared-down and edited files on a CD, and ask to be paid a fair amount for lab work and any materials. I would be thinking $300-$500.

jolefler said:

When speaking with me yesterday, she told me a friend of hers paid $1800 for her high school senior picture package....HUH?

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At the school where I work, students were charged around $6 for a copy of their group photo from their school trip. The photos were from a dSLR but looked like they came from a P&S (dull colors, purple fringing, etc.) Some of their whole class photos had vertical lines on them from the printer :rolleyes:

If I may venture a guess, I believe if you shot her wedding the photos would have much more soul, feeling and meaning than from a pro just fulfilling an order. I say go ahead and do it.

If you would like to do this for her and are willing to do it basically at your costs with a small markup or whatever I think you should go ahead and do it. She's on a totally different planet than the wedding photographer market, and you can look at it this way - it's either someone like you or nobody.

One thing I have seen at some weddings is that people will pay someone they know who is an enthusiastic amateur photographer to shoot the formal stuff and then they will put a bunch of single use cameras on the tables at the reception and encourage people to shoot their own candid photos, the understanding being that the couple will collect the cameras and have them processed. You might suggest something like that just to reduce your own workload.