What would you do?

Frank53 · Mar 16, 2017

Sometimes I sell and buy photograpy items on ebay.
After 125 transactions I have 100% positive reviews.
About a month ago I sold a Fuji 645 camera. It was definitively in good working order when I shipped it. I used it till a few days before it was sold and on the day I sold it, I made a picture of the little display on the back, to show the buyer it was working.
When the buyer received the the camera, he gave me a positive review and let me know everything was ok.
Now, about three weeks later I got a message that he wanted to use the camera for the first time and noticed that the display was not working.
Usually when there is a discussion about something I sold, I let them send back the item and give back the money.
But in this case I'm not sure, because:
-I'm absolutely sure the camera was in good working order when I sent it
-it was packed very well.
-The buyer confirmed, the camera was ok when he received it
-He had it in his posession for 3 weeks before complaining
It's an old electronic camera and I don't feel it's my responsebility if it dies in his posession as I'm not a professional seller.
What would you do?
Regards,
Frank

Skiver101 · Mar 16, 2017

Do you know what ebay's position is on the matter ?

Two23 · Mar 16, 2017

If you took a photo of it turned on an working and included that in your listing, I would dispute his claim.

Kent in SD

Eric Rose · Mar 16, 2017

Tell him to respectfully pound salt.

Rick A · Mar 16, 2017

Did you record the serial number of the camera you shipped? Demand the buyer show a photo of the SN before you make a decision(provided you have a record of it). I once sold a lens in excellent condition, the buyer claimed it was damaged and requested return for refund. I let him, and received a different lens as per the serial number. I disputed the refund with ebay and lost. They always defer to the buyer.

moose10101 · Mar 16, 2017

Your "amateur status" has no bearing. All eBay sellers are subject to the same rules, unless they're in China or are a "big box" store.

If the buyer files a "not as described" case, the 3 week time frame is irrelevant.

And I strongly advise against taking advice from people who don't clearly understand eBay policies, or you could end up without the camera and the money.

removed account4 · Mar 16, 2017

make sure it is YOUR camera
and refund the $$ get the camera back
electronis can be wonky .. and ebay is buyer oriented
better just get it back and not deal with nonsense ..
just make sure it is the same camera sold
( check serial # upon return )

Eric Rose · Mar 16, 2017

I quit using ePray years ago. To many crooks on it now.

Helios 1984 · Mar 16, 2017

moose10101 said:
Your "amateur status" has no bearing. All eBay sellers are subject to the same rules, unless they're in China or are a "big box" store.

And I strongly advise against taking advice from people who don't clearly understand eBay policies, or you could end up without the camera and the money.

+1

Frank53 said:
-He had it in his posession for 3 weeks before complaining
It's an old electronic camera and I don't feel it's my responsebility if it dies in his posession as I'm not a professional seller.
What would you do?
Regards,
Frank

Item not as described

A buyer must request a return no later than 30 days after the actual (or latest estimated) delivery date, or, if the seller's return window is longer, within the return window.

Keep your cool, be courteous and try to work something out. I'd try to find out why it doesn't work, see if there is a way to fix it and let it know to the buyer and/or offer a partial refund. If he want a full refund, give him upon reception of the undamaged item and ask for a tracking number for his security and yours. I've been selling on ebay for 5 years, they won't side with you if he open a case (sorry :-/)

Frank53 · Mar 17, 2017

Thanks for your reactions.
I'm almost sure it is my camera, because the first thing he mentioned was sending it back.
If the display does not work, the camera can not be repaired, that's for sure.
My only doubt is that the camera was ok when he received it, because that's what he confirmed.
And I have the photo of the working screen, made on the day the auction closed.
So my options are having him send it back and giving back his money and selling the camera for parts, or disputing his claim with the evidence I have and maybe lose, but than I can still give him back the money.
I'll think about it while I'm out of the country for a few days.
Regards,
Frank

moose10101 · Mar 17, 2017

Frank53 said:
I'll think about it while I'm out of the country for a few days.

Will you have access to your account, in case the buyer opens a case? There is a time limit for you to reply.

Rick A · Mar 17, 2017

I'll think about it while I'm out of the country for a few days.

This is one of those times when you really don't, or shouldn't, take time to "think it over", if ebay gets involved, you automatically lose, and your reputation(feedback) will take a hit. Deal with it now. Open a line of communication to make sure the buyer is operating the camera properly and the issue isn't simply a dead (or low)battery. Make sure you try everything first, some times it's something simple. Final resolution is(trust me on this) refunding the money. BTW, do not pay for return shipping, put that on the buyer, but do refund purchase price and original shipping.

ChuckP · Mar 17, 2017

Is the camera a Fuji 645Zi? The one with the know display problems. I know mine has intermittent display problems. So sometimes it looks OK and other times missing digit parts. Maybe the way he opened the back caused the problem to start.

moose10101 · Mar 17, 2017

Rick A said:
BTW, do not pay for return shipping, put that on the buyer

When the buyer files a "not as described" case, eBay automatically puts that on the seller. The seller can provide a postage label to the buyer, or the seller can elect to have eBay do it and bill the seller, or eBay will refund the buyer, tell them to keep the item, and bill the seller for the refund. eBay's Money Back Guarantee dictates that if the buyer doesn't get what they ordered, they will be out exactly $0.00.

Let's not set Frank up for a policy violation that can cost him his camera and his money.

Rick A · Mar 17, 2017

moose10101 said:
When the buyer files a "not as described" case, eBay automatically puts that on the seller. The seller can provide a postage label to the buyer, or the seller can elect to have eBay do it and bill the seller, or eBay will refund the buyer, tell them to keep the item, and bill the seller for the refund. eBay's Money Back Guarantee dictates that if the buyer doesn't get what they ordered, they will be out exactly $0.00.

Let's not set Frank up for a policy violation that can cost him his camera and his money.

It only goes that way if the buyer opens a dispute first. Get ahead of that and offer a refund if he sends it back without involving ebay. Here the operative is getting ahead of a dispute.

moose10101 · Mar 17, 2017

Rick A said:
It only goes that way if the buyer opens a dispute first. Get ahead of that and offer a refund if he sends it back without involving ebay. Here the operative is getting ahead of a dispute.

That would depend on the seller's return policy, which we don't know in this case. If Frank accepts returns, and if the return period has not ended, and if his policy requires shipping to be paid by the buyer, he might manage it.

But if the buyer is told that he has to pay to return his non-functional camera, the probability of a case being opened increases dramatically.

Rick A · Mar 17, 2017

Again, that's something that must be worked out between the two parties, and come to a gentleman's agreement. Frank really should not want this to be an issue for ebay to take up, or let go for very long. People get disgruntled and then vindictive, feedback matters on that site.

Frank53 · Mar 17, 2017

I told him I will contact him on Monday and he was ok with that.
As for a solution, I will tell him what my doubts are and if he has an explanation for that, I will take back the camera and pay him back. We will see.

Regards,
Frank

RauschenOderKorn · Mar 17, 2017

The times I have sold on eBay and there was a complaint, I have always offered a full refund against return of the item paying postage myself. Not due to any legal or contractual obligation but simply because the quarrel and all involved hassles are not worth a few bucks for postage.

And eBay protects the buyer more than the seller, so I saw no point.

jon koss · Mar 17, 2017

In my experience, RauschenOderKorn is striking the right note here. The old collegial eBay is long dead. Just take your lumps and refund the money once the camera comes back, no further discussion. Sorry to be harsh but like RauschenOderKorn I am just taking the long view on your quality of life.

Jon

BrianShaw · Mar 17, 2017

Similar thing happpened to me but I didn't have any incentive from eBay to guide my decision on what to do because it was a deal with a former APUG member. In my case I gave the guy all of his money back even after seeing that he attempted a modification and nearly admitted to breaking the camera. Life is too precious to waste on issues like this. Do yourself a favor and put an end to your troubles. When he returns it give him his money back but never forget who he is to make sure you never do business with him again. You'll lose some money on the deal but at least you know you did the right thing. It's all about ethics, eh...

removed account4 · Mar 17, 2017

Frank53 said:
I'm almost sure it is my camera

paypal has a thing ( or had one ? ) where they would GIVE people $$ for return posting, upto 30$
its free $$ you might as well use it for your return shipping.

unfortunately there are sellers who are dishonest and buyers who are equally as dishonest
so it ends up the 90% of buers/sellers ( regular people ) are caught in the middle.

i sell very little on ebay, once in a while, but not much. i have thought of bringing camera stuff to
a camera repair person to have them "look at it/give an honest appraisal" like someone who sells
a coin or stamp or comic book that is "sealed and appraised by a known appraisal service" and that way
there is no worry on my end about my "description" ... and a buyer has a reputable description...
that can not be used as leverage to get a return.

Old-N-Feeble · Mar 17, 2017

I buy/sell quite a bit on eBay. The only trouble I've had was when I shipped small items without tracking and the buyers didn't receive those items (this happened twice in several years). I refunded one of those and replaced the other (both shipped with tracking). The only other time was a guy claimed an item wasn't as described... but the photos he submitted as 'proof' were of a completely different item. I refused to buckle under that buyer's demands and received a negative feedback, which eBay refused to remove.

The point is, eBay's draconian policies toward sellers are harsh. Seller's haven't a prayer for self-defense.

Helios 1984 · Mar 17, 2017

Old-N-Feeble said:
I buy/sell quite a bit on eBay. The only trouble I've had was when I shipped small items without tracking and the buyers didn't receive those items (this happened twice in several years). I refunded one of those and replaced the other (both shipped with tracking). The only other time was a guy claimed an item wasn't as described... but the photos he submitted as 'proof' were of a completely different item. I refused to buckle under that buyer's demands and received a negative feedback, which eBay refused to remove.

The point is, eBay's draconian policies toward sellers are harsh. Seller's haven't a prayer for self-defense.

I remember this fella who bought one of my restored razors (Item was in prestine condition), he contacted me a few weeks after he left good comments and asked if I would consider a buy back because his wife wanted to kill him when she learned about the purchase lolll I did not refused...however I explained that he would have to pay for the shipping (International with tracking number) and that he would lose less money by selling it instead of sending it back. I never heard of him again.

Frank53 · Apr 6, 2017

Just want to let you know how it ended.
I asked the buyer to send back the camera at his costs and I gave him back his money after I checked it was my camera.
It appeared that the display was not completely gone, but only part of it. If you knew what to look for, it could still be used. Beside that the camera can be used without the display. I shot one film with it to check it and then I put it back on ebay "as is" for a fixed price of 60% of the price I sold it for the first time with a good description of what was wrong with it. It was sold in exactly 10 minutes.
Regards,
Frank

What would you do?

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