What would be the best SLR to get for a beginner?

JBrunner

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I disagree. To qualify that,I own no less than three d bodies and the majority of my paid shooting is done with them. Over half a million frames shot in that vein. In my opinion trying to learn with a system and conjoined philosophy that engenders a dilution of effort across ten thousand shots in a veritable instant, chimping the whole way doesn't promote the kind of education, discipline, and reasoning it takes to make shots count. Unlike my younger completion almost none of my work spends an instant in PS. This makes me incredibly efficient in that work flow, and I am in high demand for the higher end work in my market, indicating that the results are more than competitive.

If you can't take a good shot, take a lot of them, is tickets to hell for all you can pay IMO.
 

MattPC

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I respectfully disagree...

I've been down this route over the past 3 years. What I see in many posts here is a recommendation to buy a manual 35mm camera with built in metering. I followed almost this path and I'd like to respectully disagree. (My manual focus Pentax had manual/ae and program, I used the manual setting and built-in lightmeter/led's in a similar way to a match-needle)

To start, I agree that a manual camera is essential. Not because one needs manual to learn, but because one must not have automation available, it's just far to easy to use the automation to get the shot. My experience was that I could never remember which shots were 'mine' and which were 'the camera's'. Take notes you say? Oh how I tried, they never made any sense by the time I finished the 36 shots and processed the film!

Next I think 35mm is a right pain to learn with. There's simply too many shots per roll and consequently too much time elapsed and too many frames, too many little projects etc available to work out where my errors were. I can't imagine what the confusion would be like with essentialy limitless digi shots all mixed up in a mass of manual/auto/semi-auto. In addition, I'm all fingers and thumbs with 35mm in the darkroom, minor I know, but another frustration a newbie just does not need. And those tiny, tiny contacts that tell me so little I wobbled about for quite some time thinking I was doing something wrong with my enlarger when my real problem was simply an occaisional out of focus shot! I'm inclined to think 35mm worked well in a school environment because the teachers could load short rolls at very, very low cost, not because there's anything inherently easier about using it to learn. And, when we own the camera, toughness is much less of an issue because we look after our stuff don't we?

Next, my learning got a step change when I began my own processing and printing, that sent me back to re-learn what I thought I knew about exposure. I'm still getting to grips with variance from processing technique, agtiation, dilution temperature and the like. (Loads of mistakes here, I came to dislike and stopped using Tri-x before I learned I simply had poor temperature control, it's hot where I live. Oh well, plenty of other good films out there I can blame my next lot of mistakes on...).

Next, focus and depth of field. 35mm has so much depth of field and (seemingly to me, I'm still learning remember...) so much flexibility with focus as a result (putting aside the extreme high speed lenses that us newbies don't/shouldn't buy until we've got a few skills to exploit them) that I really have only learned the importance of what element of my composition to focus on since I started playing around with 6x6. Of course my compositions are still rubbish and I often miss my focus, so I might have this one wrong... . But then, If I'm right, digi crop sensor's might be worse again?

In my experience my 6x6 folder and modern lightmeter is teaching me more about exposure and focus/DOF than my 35mm pentax ever did. Though it was fun buying cheap pentax primes that I did'nt (er, don't) have the skills to master. And there is significantly more scope for cropping with the bigger neg in my enlarger to address composition, descisions.
My new method is to take my folder (& tripod) to my chosen location, select a composition and make my exposures using bracketing of my focus and compostion, and my exposure by making an incident metered and reflective metered version of 1 or 2. Then run off any remaining shots on my way home or at home. Then I process the film that evening and print my contact sheet the following evening. Using my notes (if any) I then think about what worked and what did not and try a few 8 x 10's. As there's never more than 12 shots, confusion is kept to a minimum. Because i can clearly remeber most of my exposures (that one was cloudy, this one I focussed colser to infinty etc) my think seems resonably clear, to me at least. Most rolls I end up with 1 shot that I'd like to try as an 11 x 14 and best of all I can usually devise an intent for an improvement in one element of my workflow to aim at next time. (I'm going to aim for less contrast when developing my roll for example).

Given that I'm a weekend amataur shooting maybe 2-4 rolls a month the modest increase in cost per frame is totally irrelevant (to me). Others may differ on this.

If I did it again, I'd go for a TLR (or maybe a Bronica SQ, these seem nearly as cheap as TLR's now), for no other reason than I expect it to be easier to use on my tripod. (anyone want to swop good user TLR (Flexaret/Belar maybe?) for a good user (ex Certo6) Franka with a Radionar F2.9? PM me.).

But, if the OP really wants to go down the 35mm path, I have a Pentax P30n and 35-70 A series zoom you can have for the price of postage (oh, I did'nt check your location sorry, I'm in Australia, it's likley cheaper to buy one of these at a garage sale/op shop near you for the $5 it's now worth!). PM me and I'll tell you the good and bad about it.

MattC.
 

Mark Fisher

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Assuming you are looking for film (why else would you be here!), I don't think it matters which major brand or model. The most important things are they are capable of fully manual operation, are in nice (as in working!) condition, and they have a single focal length lens of about 50mm. The Pentax k1000, Nikon FM, Canon AE1, Olympus OM2 are all fine....just avoid anything requiring an old mercury battery like an OM1. I love the OM1, but it isn't worth the battery hassle starting out. I personally think that manual focus (all camera mentioned above) is an important feature. When you take the picture you will know exactly where it is focussed. As far as where to buy, I'd either buy it in the classifieds here (good, honest folks) or from KEH.

Mark
 

michaelbsc

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I'm planning on starting a beginners photography course in September but don't know what kind of camera to get.
[...]
Any ideas?

Well, despite what any of us might have to offer, what does your course syllabus say?
 

MattPC

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Well, despite what any of us might have to offer, what does your course syllabus say?

Good call, now that you mention it my daughter's recent photography lecturer was incredulous when she mentioned her dad had and used a film camera (boy did I get in trouble. Apparrantly I had deliberatly set her up to be embarassed...!). You may find yourself at a seriuos disadvantage by following advice from here. Her university used (and supplied) entry level canon eos consumer kit's with the 2 kit lenses flash & tripod. Perhaps you should ask your course convenor for advice, you may not need to purchase a camera to begin with.

MattC
 

norm123

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or Nikon FG or FM / FM2 (superb glass, well built).

I agree for Nikon. FM2 is a really good choice.
 

Sirius Glass

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Welcome to APUG

Whatever fits in your hand, is comfortable to hold, shoots film and you can afford.

I like Nikons, but is do not want to start a flame war with Canonphiles. I like the Nikon N-75, Nikon N-90, and Nikon F-100. I think in my not so humble option that the Nikon F-100 is the best 35mm film SLR ever made. While others may disagree with me, they are just plain wrong, so do not pay attention to them.
 

ME Super

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Aww, you Nikon fans and Canonphiles have most of it wrong (hey, at least you still shoot film, so you don't have it all wrong). Pentax is where it's at. Pentax lenses are good quality and quite inexpensive these days (I picked up a 28-80mm Pentax zoom up a few months ago from KEH for $13). Plus, Cosina still makes a camera that uses Pentax K-mount glass. Heck, with my AF Pentax body and an adapter, I can even use every full frame lens Pentax ever made - K-mount, screw mount, it doesn't matter!
 

Sirius Glass

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Pentax is a good camera, but since your are disagreeing with me you must be wrong!

 

Sirius Glass

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I have owned many Minolta SLRs starting with a used SR-7 starting in 1966. They are great cameras, but based on post #34 if I said so I would be wrong.
 
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You guys know this is an old thread, yes? The OP never came back after his initial post in 09/2012 either.

Carry on...
 

canuhead

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Why is this thread in the pinhole sub forum ? and more interestingly, why wasn't it moved three years ago lol ?
 

cliveh

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A Pentax K1000.
 
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David A. Goldfarb

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Thread moved, better late than never.
 
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