What went wrong?

revdocjim · Dec 25, 2015

Recently I've developed two rolls of Tri-X and they both had the same problem. The center section of every frame is strangely washed out. Sort of looks like a light leak but in the center of the film strip rather than on the edges. The first time it happened I thought is was due to a mistake I made, applying hypo clearing agent a second time when I meant to apply photo flo. But then it happened again with the next roll of Tri-X when I didn't make any mistakes and now I'm wondering if the film has been damaged. The film is a bit old and has been thru several airport xrays. I've developed several rolls of Fuji Neopan 100 Acros with the same process and don't get this problem at all so I'm pretty sure it isn't an error in the developing process. It shows up on every frame of the entire roll.

MattKing · Dec 25, 2015

Can you show us an image of the negatives themselves?

My guess is that your fixing was too short or the fixer is exhausted. If so, re-fixing in fresh fixer may help.

markbarendt · Dec 25, 2015

Fogged camera lens?

revdocjim · Dec 25, 2015

Thanks for the comments. I fix for 6 minutes with Kodak fixer and it seems to work fine for Neopan 100. I have a gallon of fixer that I use 500ml at a time and return the fixer to the gallon jug. This was my 10th or 11th time to use it so it shouldn't be depleted yet. But I could try longer fixing times.

As for the fogged camera lens, that isn't likely because I've gotten identical results from two different cameras, and gotten clean results from the same two cameras using other film.

gone · Dec 25, 2015

I suspect a fixing issue too. Did you do a clip test of the fixer?

Why are you using a hypo clearing agent when developing film?

mnemosyne · Dec 25, 2015

Underfixing should be evident as milky areas/blotches when looking at the negative against a light source. It usually can be corrected by refixing the film in fresh fixer. If this is not the case ...

Has this film ever been in checked baggage while you were traveling? Normal carry-on baggage X-ray scanners do not harm film, at least not unless they are scanned more than half a dozen times or so. But a single pass through a checked baggage scanner is very likely to fog your film and the sample pic you have posted could be seen as rather typical for that type of damage, especially given that is present across the entire roll, as you indicated. See the Kodak publication below:
https://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/tib/tib5201.shtml#SEC43

removed account4 · Dec 25, 2015

wow, if it is xray damage
it is the first time in 35 years i have
seen damage from X-rays ... bummer ..

if its not the dreaded xray
maybe its light leak ..
now sure what format film
or camera type is used but
across the roll in the same spot
bleached out like that
would be a dark ness throughout the whole negative
are the clear parts between the frames ... not clear?

can you upload a untweaked negative strip ?

happy holidays !

Gerald C Koch · Dec 25, 2015

X-ray will usually show a shadow from the cassette or film spool. This is a repeated pattern which will appear over the entire roll as a lighter artifact.

Sirius Glass · Dec 25, 2015

X-rays damage often shows up a wavy line across the roll.

Arvee · Dec 25, 2015

In my experience under fixing tends to be more blotchy/mottled. Looks like the film was fogged....somehow; the fogging is very evenly distributed. 6x6 if the image is representative.

revdocjim · Dec 25, 2015

momus said:
I suspect a fixing issue too. Did you do a clip test of the fixer?

Why are you using a hypo clearing agent when developing film?

I did not do a clip test of the fixer since I'm developing film every few days and haven't seen signs of depletion yet.

I'm using hypo clearing agent because that's what the directions say to do, and to reduce rinse time/save water.

revdocjim · Dec 25, 2015

So here is a scan of the negative, unprocessed.

I'm not sure how many xrays the film has been thru but I'm pretty sure I've always had it in my hand luggage.
I'm going to try fixing this film a little longer, although it's already been a couple days since I developed and dried it.

Sirius Glass · Dec 25, 2015

There is a band across all the negatives which can imply fogging or not fixing [using hypo] long enough.

NB23 · Dec 25, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
X-rays damage often shows up a wavy line across the roll.

Not really. The Wavy line depends on the position of the Cassette itself when it was zapped. The wave is simply the film is rolled. Film sheets, for example, will never show a wave, unless the sheet has been rolled (never).

Films in a bag all get an even ZAP. However, the ZAP reflects differently depending on how the films were lying in the bag. Every film will show the zap slightly similarly or very differently. It's all about the angle of the film's cassette. If the cassette is lying flat you won't have a wave at all.

NB23 · Dec 25, 2015

I think that it's XRay damage, unfortunately. I've had it happen to me.

revdocjim · Dec 25, 2015

Here's an update. I refixed the film, giving it a good 15 minutes or so and then re-rinsed and dried it and now I'm scanning it, but from what I can tell looking at the negatives, the foggy band in the middle appears to be gone! I won't know for sure until the scans are done but will keep you posted. By the way, I forgot to mention that the film is 120.

Sirius Glass · Dec 25, 2015

We could tell that it is 120 film from the negative.

removed account4 · Dec 25, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
We could tell that it is 120 film from the negative.

coulda been 127, same shape film

revdocjim · Dec 26, 2015

You folks are the BEST! Negatives came out looking very clean after the additional fixing. Scanned negs are coming out perfect! I will be increasing my fix time to 10 minutes or more for the next rolls.
So here's a question: why does Tri-X 400 require more thorough fixing than Neopan 100? Any ideas?

Hilo · Dec 26, 2015

Perhaps when you first fixed the fixer was too cold?

revdocjim · Dec 26, 2015

That may be possible. I'm much more careful about the temps of my developer than the other chemicals.

removed account4 · Dec 26, 2015

when you fixed your film, did you agitate it ?
fixer needs to be agitated too, and print trays need to be rocked.
it really shouldn't have much to do with if the fixer is cold or warmer
i've fixed my film in new england winter cold room ( like 50ºF ) and as long
as it was agitated it worked just fine ...

glad to see it worked out and wasn't a more serious equipment failure problem!

revdocjim · Dec 26, 2015

yup, my agitation scheme is the same for dev, stop, fix stages.

NB23 · Dec 26, 2015

Fixer is more active when warmer. Agitation is key, of course.

I'm amazed that no one has yet recommended stand fixing after stand development.

BetterSense · Dec 26, 2015

You should always check for complete fixing visually. You should never just assume that fixing for a fixed time will be sufficient. I personally think that manufacturer instructions to fix for any given amount of time is irresponsible advice. The better advice is to fix however many minutes it takes until the film is visually cleared, and then fix that number of minutes more. "Twice the clearing time".

Also, you should look into two-bath fixing. It is both better and cheaper than single -bath fixing.

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