What went wrong with developing?

rhiannatruex · Mar 9, 2022

Delta 3200, shot at 3200. Developed with HC110 dilution B, 12 min @ 68F. Agitation every 30s, used patterson tank + reels. Water as stop bath, fixed with Ilford rapid fix for 4 minutes, washed well (maybe could have been longer)

Some images show only the black (white on negative) spots and some have a bizarre haze around them. Two examples below.

This is my second attempt at developing - is it possible the funky haze is a light leak from when I was spooling? Or is it likely to be chemical based? What is causing these crazy little spots? My last attempt at developing the spots were much worse, and I assumed poor washing of the fixer, resulting in the fixer drying on the negative.

(excuse the cat hair)

VinceInMT · Mar 9, 2022

Hmmm, looks like all the above. Some spots could be air bubbles on the film during development. Did you rap the tank down after filling to dislodge them? The uneven areas look like either insufficiently mixed chemical or a lack of agitation. The film also looks fogged. At 3200 you really do need complete darkness when loading. I doubt that fixer drying on the film is an issue. Even a quick rinse would remove enough fixer to prevent that.

Others with much more experience than I will chime in with their expertise. Don’t be discouraged. We all go through this learning curve.

rhiannatruex · Mar 9, 2022

Thank you Vince - I did tap it down after agitation every time.

Half the roll came out fine with minimal spots, the other half had a lot of uneven development areas. I’m not sure how the chemicals could vary inside the tank like that, but I truly don’t know much about this process yet.

Donald Qualls · Mar 9, 2022

The clear spots on the negative and the liquid-looking blotches could both come from fixer left in the tank after the last film, but that should only be the case if you took the film out of the tank to wash, and didn't wash the tank.

rhiannatruex · Mar 9, 2022

Donald - I think you might be onto something. My last roll in there was a C41 roll, that was accidentally blixed before dev, so I dumped the blix back, tossed the roll, and went to bed sad. I did a small rinse before loading this roll, but maybe not enough?

Donald Qualls · Mar 9, 2022

Potentially. This isn't distinctive enough to say for certain it's one thing over another, but fixer or blix getting to the emulsion first could make either clear spots or that "wash" look.

mshchem · Mar 9, 2022

Cat hair and dander could be some of it. Are you loading in a bag or darkroom.

pentaxuser · Mar 9, 2022

rhiannatruex said:
Half the roll came out fine with minimal spots, the other half had a lot of uneven development areas..

Can you tell us which half came out fine i.e. were the fine halves and uneven halves completely separate as in frames 1-18 were fine and 19-36 OK uneven or were there frames good and bad spaced randomly throughout?

In these sort of problems no detail such as the above is too unimportant. It helps eliminate factors that have not caused the problem. For instance you have told us that you washed well but could have been longer so tell us for how long you washed and how you washed. I think the latter is unlikely to be the problem but if we know the method and length of wash that might eliminate washing as a problem

Thanks

pentaxuser

rhiannatruex · Mar 9, 2022

Thanks Pentaxuser. I washed for a few minutes, I ran the water awhile, capped it and did some inversions, dumped, rinsed again and swirled the tank around, dumped, repeat a few times.

frames 1-13 are the worst, with haze and swirlies and fogginess. The rest have varying levels of spots/haze, no particular pattern but the end of the roll was less usable due to spots. I guess, all of that to say the middle of the roll seemed best.

I also must confess, I was in a room I thought to be completely dark when loading, but it seems it let a minuscule amount of light in - which for a high speed film, may have been a bigger issue than I thought. Investing in a dark bag before my next rolls!

George Collier · Mar 9, 2022

The image with the window and cat look like the film stuck together in the tank, for at least some of the time, maybe both developer and fixer. Hard to say. Also looks like a lot of fog, but this might be normal for such a high speed film.

MattKing · Mar 9, 2022

Instead of a dark bag, see if you can maximize the darkness by loading at night with any outside lights turned off.
Dark bags work for some, but I consider them to be instruments of torture!
One other point - try re-fixing the film. What we see may be the results of insufficient fixing.
You can, of course do the re-fixing in room light. Just re-wet the film first, fix it again for another 4 minutes at least (assuming your fixer is still good) and the re-wash and re-photoflo. Then hang to dry in a reasonably humid environment.

AgX · Mar 9, 2022

Welcome Rhianna!

Those artefacts "by liquids" make me think of a little volume of improper liquid having been in the tank before loading, or added after loading, and this at moving the tank in a kind of in irregular way running along (part) of your filmstrip still being dry, before you filled the tank with developer.

To me this makes sense with what you wrote about your "day before".

AgX · Mar 9, 2022

George Collier said:
The image with the window and cat look like the film stuck together in the tank, for at least some of the time, maybe both developer and fixer.

I did not read your post before posting mine above. In case we could explain what happened at the right rebate, we could differenciate better.

And how can film stick onto itself? Never happened to me even when develing longer filmstrip than spiral length, though likely depends on tank.

George Collier · Mar 9, 2022

If improperly loaded onto the reels. It doesn't happen very often, but the op indicated this is his second time developing. An early issue for some folks is not getting the film seated into the coils of the reel, which can result in areas of film adhering to each other, resulting in fluid looking areas like the neg I indicated, and if in the fixer, incomplete fixing where the film stuck to itself, or incomplete development if in the developer.

pentaxuser · Mar 9, 2022

For what it is worth I now do not think your washing method is at fault nor in my experience with D3200 have I ever found a problem with this film and fog - at least not if the film is fresh i.e. used within its expiry date

pentaxuser

Donald Qualls · Mar 9, 2022

@George Collier Rhianna's user page indicates she's female... But yes, it's possible to have film jump the grooves in the reel and touch back of one turn to the front of the next -- but in my experience, when this happens it's much worse than that fluid-cloud type mark on the second negative above. To my eye, that and the artifacts along the sprockets suggest some liquid mixed in with the developer, reducing activity where it hasn't diluted out yet (and possibly fixing away halide where it hadn't been diluted at all). Leftover blix from previous attempt seems a likely cause for this.

George Collier · Mar 9, 2022

To Donald's point, the edges of the areas I'm talking about are soft, so touching film might not be the problem.

Sirius Glass · Mar 9, 2022

.

Welcome to ~~APUG~~ Photrio!![/lcenter]

rhiannatruex · Mar 9, 2022

Wow! A lot of replies - thanks guys!

RE: second time developing and reels - sorry! This is my second time developing BW, I have done C41 and experimented with some other things already, I am confident in my loading of the reels as far as the film not touching itself BUT the reels do seem to tear some emulsion off of the sprocket edges. I have flakes from that. A friend is going to give me an extra set of reels to try and see if that changes the flake situation.

My tank was not dry when I loaded this roll - as one of you said, maybe this has something to do with that as well. I've made sure to air my tank out this time and fully dry.

I have been led to believe water as a stop bath is fine, but I'll look at proper stop baths. Money is less of an issue than just knowledge itself! Thank you ALL for all of the helpful comments. I am hopeful that my next roll will go better, whenever I can finish it up!

NB23 · Mar 9, 2022

{Further argument about stop bath deleted here by Moderator: NB23 recommends stop bath, and recommends against using water instead}

Also, the severeness of the blotches suggest an uneven pouring of developer and a general staleness if chemicals. The pouring technique is very important, and keeping the chemicals (all three of them) in motion, as well!

A few basic things for good development:
-{edited}
-no stand development
-good inversions in all directions
-fresh chemicals
-proper stop bath

NB23 · Mar 9, 2022

Try re-fixing.

By the way, fixing also needs proper inversions.

NB23 · Mar 9, 2022

At last, since you are new at this, please stay very basic when developing is in question. Don’t listen to the internet fads such as stand development and such. That’s a NOOB trap.

Also, don’t listen to the people that will tell you to dash a little amount of rodinal into your regular developer (any developer) so you can get a little extra ooomph out of your films. Don’t laugh, people, this was actually a thing for a short while.

Philistinism at its best!

Nige · Mar 10, 2022

my development times take into account my non use of stop bath

koraks · Mar 10, 2022

Next time ensure absolute darkness when handling the film. This is likely the main problem. Secondary problem is under exposure of the frames you showed. The bright window has fooled your light meter into severely underexposing the est of the scene. Read up on under- and overexposure, exposure compensation etc.

The use of a stop bath doesn't hurt but it's not the issue here despite what some may argue.

Trapped air bubbles might have played a role here, but if so, the effect is likely swamped by the light leak/fogging issue. Ensure your tank & reel are nice and clean before you start. ALWAYS rinse them thoroughly immediately after use.

Finally, scanning is an art of itself. You'd be surprised how many people get stuck with what they think are poor negatives while they really have trouble with digital image handling. However, your negatives are certainly poor at thos point so start there.

If you can, see if you can meet up with someone who is experienced with film development and learn from them. You can get there with YouTube, forums etc. But sometimes it's a lot faster to just spend 2 hours with someone who knows the ropes.

foc · Mar 10, 2022

Well done on your second attempt at developing your own film.
It is great fun but can be challenging when the odd problem pops up.
You will get great advice here, just remember most of it is the poster's personal experience. This may suit some but not others.

My recommendation is that you read the following. (print it off and use it as a reference)
https://www.ilfordphoto.com/wp/wp-c...rocessing-your-first-black-and-white-film.pdf

What went wrong with developing?

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