What went wrong?colour with B&W chemicals

Frostice100 · Jan 13, 2018

Hello,hi again. Since the first time i posted here and started my analogue journey i've learnt much.
I've even started developing my own film. Anyhow, i dont have much experience since i have developed only one roll,but today i tried to develop kodak colourplus 200 with B&W chemicals (Kodak D-76 developer) and also pushed for 1 stop (from 200 to 400).The problem is that after developing it the roll didn't have any pictures on it.Half looked black( well it might have been very very little light that went through the door when wrapping it on the stool but it wasn't much and i dont think this was the problem )and the other the usual orange-like colour of film(there also was a very dim picture,the only negative i managed to get).
Also when i put in the developer, it looked alright and transparent like water (i only have it for a month), yet when i emptied it the developer it had a strong olive-colour to it (the developer was new, i didn't reuse any)
I developed it for 10 minutes (my mistake i didn't know much time it needed t develop properly) and since i pushed it one stop i added another 5 minutes,so a total of 15min (for the developer),i then risned it with water for 5-7 minutes, the put in the fixer for another 9-10 minutes,the rinsed it again with water for 10 minutes.
I know colour film has to be very precise but i developed it in black and white.Do those prerequisites apply for when you develop colour film in B&W (a certain temperature etc.)

For the developer i agitated for the first minute and then after 3 minutes for 30sec
For the fixer i agitated for the first 30sec and then every minute for 10sec

Thanks for your help
Cheers!

mike c · Jan 13, 2018

Color neg film use,s a different set of chemicals than B&W neg. film.

Frostice100 · Jan 13, 2018

mike c said:
Color neg film use,s a different set of chemicals than B&W neg. film.

Aren't both of them developed by C-41 chemicals? Is there a difference between B&W C-41 and colour C-41 chemicals?

BAC1967 · Jan 13, 2018

Try semi-stand developing in Rodinal 1:100. This is Kodak Gold 200 scanned in color. It had an orange cast which is blue when it was reversed.

Anchor Away by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

John Wiegerink · Jan 13, 2018

Frostice100 said:
Aren't both of them developed by C-41 chemicals? Is there a difference between B&W C-41 and colour C-41 chemicals?

Technically, yes there is a difference. You can do a search on "cross-processing" color film as B&W. I have processed color(c-41) in B&W chemistry and you will get an image, but I was never happy with it. Other folks have had better luck with it. I just never pursued it further. JohnW

E. von Hoegh · Jan 13, 2018

Frostice100 said:
Aren't both of them developed by C-41 chemicals? Is there a difference between B&W C-41 and colour C-41 chemicals?

Chromogenic B&W is developed in C41 chemicals, there is only one film of this type available, Ilford XP2. It is designed to give monochrome images, but is processed in C41 chemicals. You processed color C41 film in inappropriate (standard B&W) chemicals, there is no such thing as "B&W C41 chemicals".

Frostice100 · Jan 13, 2018

E. von Hoegh said:
Chromogenic B&W is developed in C41 chemicals, there is only one film of this type available, Ilford XP2. It is designed to give monochrome images, but is processed in C41 chemicals. You processed color C41 film in inappropriate (standard B&W) chemicals, there is no such thing as "B&W C41 chemicals".

Thank you, i suppose i acted without thinking,well anyway, thanks!

Frostice100 · Jan 13, 2018

John Wiegerink said:
Technically, yes there is a difference. You can do a search on "cross-processing" color film as B&W. I have processed color(c-41) in B&W chemistry and you will get an image, but I was never happy with it. Other folks have had better luck with it. I just never pursued it further. JohnW

I did search it. You are right, it was a serious mistake, anyhow that's how you'll learn i suppose
Thanks

pentaxuser · Jan 13, 2018

Doing what you did has never had any attractions for me but I can understand why in your circumstance you wanted to have a go. Plenty of people here appear to make a success of it. I don't think you should have had as bad an outcome as you did. Do a search on Photrio. There are plenty of threads on this. As a matter of fact there is one by David Lyga there right now.

pentaxuser

Frostice100 · Jan 13, 2018

pentaxuser said:
Doing what you did has never had any attractions for me but I can understand why in your circumstance you wanted to have a go. Plenty of people here appear to make a success of it. I don't think you should have had as bad an outcome as you did. Do a search on Photrio. There are plenty of threads on this. As a matter of fact there is one by David Lyga there right now.

pentaxuser

It's not something i would prefer either
It's just that i've started and wanted to try something different and see what the results would be , but overall i dont really like to tweak my film like that either.

removed account4 · Jan 14, 2018

All is not totally lost. You might be able to carefully put He film back on
Reels and soak the film and carefully barely agitate in potassium
ferricyanide and then refix and rewash... good luck!

John Wiegerink · Jan 14, 2018

jnanian said:
All is not totally lost. You might be able to carefully put He film back on
Reels and soak the film and carefully barely agitate in potassium
ferricyanide and then refix and rewash... good luck!

Yes, what John says here is worth a try, but don't expect miracles. It likely will be slightly better and slightly different than what you have now. Fun to experiment and you are really nothing out at this point. Let us know if you do try it. Good luck JohnW

Frostice100 · Jan 14, 2018

John Wiegerink said:
Yes, what John says here is worth a try, but don't expect miracles. It likely will be slightly better and slightly different than what you have now. Fun to experiment and you are really nothing out at this point. Let us know if you do try it. Good luck JohnW

Where can i find potassium ferricyanide though?

removed account4 · Jan 14, 2018

you can get it at a place that sells photo supplies .. what you want to do is buy a packet
or get one "special ordered" is called "farmers reducer" .. if they don't have it ...
find a place that sells bulkchemistry you can find it there .. or get a "kit"
for making classic cyanotypes and use the that .. its t he stuff that isn't green
from what i remember it is is a 35mm film canister of ferri and 1L of water ( if you don't have the farmers reducer kit )
fixer is regular strength for film .. use separately ..

if you have one of those rods to agitate your iflm in the tank use it
or take a coathanger (metal ) and straighten it out and make a butterfly at th e bottom
and put your film on that and raise and lower it slowely when you have it in the potassim ferricyanide solution
donn't do it much,its really active .. once you strip some of the darkness off you will need to refix it again
because it is now light sensitive .. if you ever get dicrotic fog on your film, this removes that too ..

good luck !

mshchem · Jan 14, 2018

My suggestion is buy some black and white film and start over. You made a simple mistake, no big deal. Start getting beautiful black and white negatives.
Best Mike

mikemgb · Jan 14, 2018

I develop colour film in black and white chemicals quite a lot, the results are usually fairly decent. As has been suggested try re-fixing the film for 10 - 15 minutes, that may resue something. However you say you may have had a little light leak, it takes very little light to destroy the negatives, perhaps that was a large part of the problem?

Frostice100 · Jan 14, 2018

jnanian said:
you can get it at a place that sells photo supplies .. what you want to do is buy a packet
or get one "special ordered" is called "farmers reducer" .. if they don't have it ...
find a place that sells bulkchemistry you can find it there .. or get a "kit"
for making classic cyanotypes and use the that .. its t he stuff that isn't green
from what i remember it is is a 35mm film canister of ferri and 1L of water ( if you don't have the farmers reducer kit )
fixer is regular strength for film .. use separately ..

if you have one of those rods to agitate your iflm in the tank use it
or take a coathanger (metal ) and straighten it out and make a butterfly at th e bottom
and put your film on that and raise and lower it slowely when you have it in the potassim ferricyanide solution
donn't do it much,its really active .. once you strip some of the darkness off you will need to refix it again
because it is now light sensitive .. if you ever get dicrotic fog on your film, this removes that too ..

good luck !

I dont think my local lab has any supply of potassim ferricyanide. I suppose i'll just let it go. Nevertheless i had no idea you could do that, thanks a lot anyhow

Frostice100 · Jan 14, 2018

mshchem said:
My suggestion is buy some black and white film and start over. You made a simple mistake, no big deal. Start getting beautiful black and white negatives.
Best Mike

You're right. Well, mistakes happen

Frostice100 · Jan 14, 2018

mikemgb said:
I develop colour film in black and white chemicals quite a lot, the results are usually fairly decent. As has been suggested try re-fixing the film for 10 - 15 minutes, that may resue something. However you say you may have had a little light leak, it takes very little light to destroy the negatives, perhaps that was a large part of the problem?

Could be the case actually, i'll take care of it next time and make sure there is no light. Thanks!

E. von Hoegh · Jan 14, 2018

With a few caveats, developing film is dirt simple.
Caveat 1). Accurate measurements, accurate temperature.
Caveat 2). Absolute cleanliness, absolute darkness.
Caveat 3) Research any chemical process you intend to use. By research I mean read, not look at youtoob rubbish.
Caveat 4) Keep notes of exposure, developing times chemicals, etcera. These will be invaluable references if things go awry.
Otherwise, time and temperature and discipline will see you proud.

BMbikerider · Jan 14, 2018

Actually when the fore runner of XP2 first came out, there was a C41 type developer made especially for it by Ilford. It did not work with colour C41 except to create a B&W negative! It was claimed to give slightly sharper negatives, but it didn't last long on sale and was discontinued after a year or so..

E. von Hoegh · Jan 14, 2018

BMbikerider said:
Actually when XP2 first came out there was a C41 type developer made especially for it by Ilford. It did not work with colour C41 except to create a B&W negative. It was claimed to give slightly sharper negatives but it didn't last long and was discontinued after a year or so..

The Kodak version gave excellent almost grainless negatives with nice tonality, with dime store machine processing.

E. von Hoegh · Jan 14, 2018

Frostice100 said:
Could be the case actually, i'll take care of it next time and make sure there is no light. Thanks!

You must realise, 1/125 of a second shutter speed is eight thousandths of a second? Your eye-brain interface can barely percieve that. If you see light in a "darkroom" it isn't. They call them "darkrooms" because they are DARK.

What went wrong?colour with B&W chemicals

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