What use a handheld meter?

Slowshooter · Jun 14, 2017

I'm an intermediate photographer. Just recently I bought a Sekonic L558 meter off eBay. Having produced some flat grey images in the past and having read articles on the benefits of a handheld meter, I decided this was the thing for me. Now I'm having doubts. I've read articles online saying that the internal meter on the camera (Pentax 67II in my case) is just as effective. Some say there's no need for a separate meter. Others say that meters aren't accurately calibrated. Yet others swear by handheld meters.

My main area of interest is black and white landscape photography. Maybe part of the problem is that I haven't actually gone out and experimented enough. I'm still a bit confused e.g.: when you take a number of readings with a handheld spot meter and then average them, is that average figure the same as 18% grey, so producing an average exposure. I know there's the whole thing of zones and where you want to place the shadows. But, if I decide to go one or two stops below/above the suggested average, am I going to get a vastly underexposed/overexposed image? Or am I getting this all wrong? Pretty basic questions. Any opinions?

Some examples, with post-processing in Lightroom: https://www.flickr.com/photos/an_solas/albums/72157632614330163

faberryman · Jun 14, 2017

Sounds like a good read through of Ansel Adams The Negative for basic exposure information would be in order. There is sure to be a copy at your local library. If you go to the source, you won't be led astray by some of the dubious material on the internet.

If your L558 meter did not come with a copy of the manual, you can find it here.

RalphLambrecht · Jun 14, 2017

Slowshooter said:
I'm an intermediate photographer. Just recently I bought a Sekonic L558 meter off eBay. Having produced some flat grey images in the past and having read articles on the benefits of a handheld meter, I decided this was the thing for me. Now I'm having doubts. I've read articles online saying that the internal meter on the camera (Pentax 67II in my case) is just as effective. Some say there's no need for a separate meter. Others say that meters aren't accurately calibrated. Yet others swear by handheld meters.

My main area of interest is black and white landscape photography. Maybe part of the problem is that I haven't actually gone out and experimented enough. I'm still a bit confused e.g.: when you take a number of readings with a handheld spot meter and then average them, is that average figure the same as 18% grey, so producing an average exposure. I know there's the whole thing of zones and where you want to place the shadows. But, if I decide to go one or two stops below/above the suggested average, am I going to get a vastly underexposed/overexposed image? Or am I getting this all wrong? Pretty basic questions. Any opinions?

Some examples, with post-processing in Lightroom: https://www.flickr.com/photos/an_solas/albums/72157632614330163

This highly epends on your type of photography. for landscapes,a hand-held meter is of limited use and a spotmeter may be more appropriate;However, in the studio,they are a must-have and highly valuable especially if the do ambient and flash. In general, I'd prefer them over the built-in meters.

Sirius Glass · Jun 14, 2017

In addition to what Ralph said, an incident meter is very useful if the subject is all or mostly bright or all or mostly dark.

Paul Howell · Jun 14, 2017

The incident meter is key to Beyond The Zone System, Phil Davis book is a interesting take on the zone.

Soeren · Jun 14, 2017

Metering/exposure is only part in controlling contrast. Development another and the final is your enlargementstage.
Now how was it ? Expose for the shadows develop for the highlights.

Andrew O'Neill · Jun 15, 2017

No doubt you'll be working with a tripod. Set up, compose image. Then use your hand held metre to take readings of the scene. If you metre the high and low values, average them then give less exposure you're underexposing. Metre the shadows. Base your exposure on the shadows. 2 stops less will give you zone 3 providi g you've done all your film testing.

TheRook · Jun 15, 2017

Perhaps what you really need to make your black and white images look less flat and grey are simply a few color filters to improve contrast. Sometimes those filters can really work wonders, especially for landscape photography.

Slowshooter · Jun 15, 2017

Thanks everyone for all of your very helpful replies. I have Adams' 'The Camera' already and intend to get 'The Negative'. The solution is probably to shoot more, to experiment and to see what my new meter is capable of. The zone system is still a bit of a mystery but probably not as complicated as it seems. I did spend good money on a set of Lee filters but haven't used them much in my film work. Another idea might be to stay away from the internet for a while! Thanks again.

pdeeh · Jun 15, 2017

If I was getting flat grey (i.e. low contrast) images, I'd be looking at my development not my exposure ...

removed account4 · Jun 15, 2017

great advice you have been given.

but you really don't need to do the zone system / read AA's or BTZS books ...
( unless you really want to learn zone system stuff )

if it was me with flat, contrastless negatives i'd take a couple rolls and "bracket" my exposures
( meter a scene, shoot as the meter says then 1 stop over exposed and 1 stop under exposed )
and then develop these rolls 1- the published time for your film, 1 roll 30% more, and 1roll 30% less.
then print or scan or do whatever it is you do with your film and see what frames you like the best ... then shoot
a whole roll THAT way. i'd also make sure you aren't doing stuff like "stand/semi stand" developing your film
( produces low contrast negatives ) and agitate the 1 full min / 10 sec / min way instead of
the suggestions the internet might give you.

what developer are you using ?

i'd use a developer that is not an vit c developer ( like xtol or caffenol c &c ) while they are great,
they sometimes produce low contrast negatives. i'd use something like ID-11 or D76 ...

good luck / have fun !
john

Ces1um · Jun 15, 2017

There are some great replies here. Everyone seems spot on. Personally I always found an incident meter is great if you can literally walk up to where you're shooting and take the reading. For landscapes you could be shooting a photo of something 5-10km away. The light could be different there than where you are. TheRook really had a great suggestion about filters. If you want contrast, a deep red filter really produces striking results. The negative is a great read even if you weren't experiencing any problems shooting. It never hurts to pick that up. Soren and jnanian are right as well. Development really can affect your contrast as well. Once I forgot to dilute my developer and put it in full strength. That produced some very strong contrasty results. All things you can try! Best of luck!

bdial · Jun 15, 2017

What matters most is what you meter, not whether the meter is builtin to the camera or is handheld. Metered cameras are convenient, but it's sometimes easier to control what the meter "sees" with a handheld. Also incident metering is difficult a builtin meter unless you carry a grey card.

A few years back, taking a workshop, I wanted to get my head around zone techniques. I borrowed the instructors spot meter and spent probably 20 minutes metering various spots in the scene to figure out what zone they would end up in, and coming up with an exposure. Finally figured out what to use for exposure and for the heck of it, did an incident reading with my Luna-Pro, which turned out to be the same.
Not saying that spot meters are not useful, but incident readings can be very versatile.

Paul Howell · Jun 15, 2017

Slowshooter said:
Thanks everyone for all of your very helpful replies. I have Adams' 'The Camera' already and intend to get 'The Negative'. The solution is probably to shoot more, to experiment and to see what my new meter is capable of. The zone system is still a bit of a mystery but probably not as complicated as it seems. I did spend good money on a set of Lee filters but haven't used them much in my film work. Another idea might be to stay away from the internet for a while! Thanks again.

As you already have an incident meter I recommend that you read Phil Davis' Beyond the Zone System, perhaps your local library can use the interlibrary loan to get you a copy of both the Negative and Davis' book. I use the traditional Zone system when shooting 4X5, but I can see the value of Beyond the Zone System.

markbarendt · Jun 15, 2017

I firmly believe that any meter that is used skillfully and is in good repair intrinsically produces a technically 'perfect' reading.

In that sense if your system ain't broke there's no reason for 'fixing' things. Run what ya brung.

If you're having problems then looking for a better tool or some fresh understanding of metering is worthwhile.

Kawaiithulhu · Jun 15, 2017

markbarendt said:
If you're having problems then looking for a better tool or some fresh understanding of metering is worthwhile

Great advice. If you have a clear idea of the full lifecycle of light from the source, bouncing off the subject, then filtered onto the film for development any decent meter will let you take that knowledge and decide where and how to measure to get the end result you want.

The Zone system just gives a framework to hang the last half of that on, and metering the front half.

Camera meters are pretty great, but they're mostly limited to only reflected measurement and many times that's not what you need to feed the last half.

It's so very easy to get stuck up in the details, not seeing the forest for the trees.

Sirius Glass · Jun 15, 2017

jnanian said:
great advice you have been given.

but you really don't need to do the zone system / read AA's or BTZS books ...
( unless you really want to learn zone system stuff )

...

I agree. I on occasion use the Zone System, but most of the time it is not needed nor worth the trouble. Use a reflectance meter without metering the sky or if you prefer an incidence meter, and you will have great results without, for most, confusing Zone System instructions and endless useless series of mindless tests.

flavio81 · Jun 15, 2017

Slowshooter said:
Now I'm having doubts. I've read articles online saying that the internal meter on the camera (Pentax 67II in my case) is just as effective.

Then avoid those online web pages that promote such ill advice.

Your handheld meter is one of your best friends. Treat it with care and it will help you on difficult situations. It is, together with the tripod, a really really important piece of kit.

Your camera meter can't read incident light. And incident light measurement is more helpful and more reliable than reflected light measurement.

flavio81 · Jun 15, 2017

Sirius Glass said:
confusing Zone System instructions and endless useless series of mindless tests.

+1

Craig75 · Jun 15, 2017

Use filters to get life in the skies and be bolder in lightroom - the shots all look metered properly but your processing is a bit timid (i dont have a calibrated screen or anything like that so bear that in my mind) - burn some elements in to get more life, turn up the contrast to get some stronger blacks in your shots then see where you are. It might help to reduce development time so you can up contrast in post.

The meter in your camera will do a top notch job. You just need to know what its doing in certain situations and compensate accordingly - eg. backlit, landscapes with sky, snow.

but if you have a spotmeter now and like landscapes then use that - wait for light to get interesting - get shooting earlier or be willing to wait for light to change to add drama, then act fast when it changes!

if your negatives have all the shadow and highlight detail you need in them already a change of meter is going to do nothing tho. its light in scene + post processing that will give them life

Im in NE England so like I'm assuming you have same problem in Eire where we can be plagued by flat light for weeks (or months...) on end so you might have to return to same place a few times before the light gets interesting (or be willing to do a lot of work in post to add interest)

faberryman · Jun 15, 2017

RalphLambrecht said:
This highly epends on your type of photography. for landscapes,a hand-held meter is of limited use and a spotmeter may be more appropriate;However, in the studio,they are a must-have and highly valuable especially if the do ambient and flash. In general, I'd prefer them over the built-in meters.

Sirius Glass said:
In addition to what Ralph said, an incident meter is very useful if the subject is all or mostly bright or all or mostly dark.

The Sekonic L558 which the OP bought is a spot meter, an incident meter, and a flash meter. It covers all the bases. Since he already has it, I'd recommend he learn how to use it, and then once he learns what it can do, decide whether he really needs all that it offers. During the course of learning how to use it, he will learn a lot about exposure, which from his post, sounds like it would be beneficial. Of course, it will require some effort on his part. As far as the Zone System goes, understanding it is a benefit, even if he doesn't end up using it in his work flow.

LAG · Jun 15, 2017

Slowshooter said:
Another idea might be to stay away from the internet for a while!

Amen!

summicron1 · Jun 15, 2017

when i travel i typically use my Leica CL, which has a meter built-in that is pretty much a spot meter -- the trick to using a spot meter in a camera is to use it to measure both the highlight of the scene, and the darker area of the scene, and decide how you want to balance those. This means you have to pre-visualize the end image, as well, but that's what photography is all about.

I find the match needle aspect of this camera particularly useful because I can watch how much it swings between bright and dark, and balance it so it goes above and below the "correct exposure" mark in the viewfinder enough to achieve the result I want.

Then I bracket.

I have a sekonic incident meter that I use with my large format cameras, but beyond the data it provides, the mental process is pretty much the same. Meters are only a starting point.

Sirius Glass · Jun 15, 2017

Almost most of the time I use the meter internal to the camera. If I do not have an internal meter then I use the Sekonic 308-L or the Gossen Luna Pro SBC.

removed account4 · Jun 15, 2017

summicron1 said:
Then I bracket

there you go, someone is talking sense

What use a handheld meter?

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