What to do with a full-plate "Chinese Deardorff"?

Denis P. · Dec 30, 2005

Heh, got your attention, didn't I?

Anyway, a friend gave me a Chinese Seagull "full plate" camera - and it's really nice.

The problems are the following:

1) it's a "full plate" format - 6.5 x 8.5"

2) I got 3 holders, but those are for glass plates

3) I'll probably have to think of a new tripod adapter, since the existing one (big round hole with metal contraption/adapter) can't be used - at least I don't have the tripod that would fit there

Since there's no way I'm going to mess with glass plates, I was thinking if there would be any feasible way to use "normal" (i.e. 5x7) film with those plate holders.
Or perhaps make an adapter back, so that the camera could accept my B&J 5x7 back?

Oh, yes - the photos of the camera can be seen here:

http://www.belaj.com/unsorted/seagull/

Any ideas how to actually USE that thing?

Regards,

Denis

nze · Dec 30, 2005

Hello Denis

I use a full plate camera without any peoblem, you may find filmholder on ebay. Just look for korona or seneca camera and holder.
For the film I have some bergger cut at the size and also buy 8x10 that I cut at the good size.

If you don't need the glass holder you msurely will find interested people who make tintype who will appreciate to trade some film holder with your plate holder.

Best

Ole · Dec 30, 2005

You can put a glass plate or other stiff material behind the film, to press it into place. I've done this on my 18x24cm plate camera, and still do it on the 30x40cm camera.

You can also find metal cut film adapters, I use those in 6.5x9cm, 9x12cm, 5x7", 13x18cm and 18x24cm. They turn up on ebay every once in a while.

You can also make format reducers similar to the ones you have, to take it down to 5x7". film adapters in that size may be easier to find.

Or you could of course make a new back to take "modern" film holders.

TheFlyingCamera · Dec 30, 2005

The base plate on the camera is designed for one of those old-style tripods where the legs attach directly to the camera... you can either make/have made for you an adapter plate that fits in place, or shop around on ebay for a tripod that would fit, or contact the seller of the camera (if not on ebay) and see if they have/can get a tripod leg set made for the camera. While not brand new, the camera still looks relatively recent - you might be able to find a new set of legs for it from Seagull.

steve simmons · Dec 30, 2005

Ilford is now making plate size film available

You could have someone - say Richard Ritter - make a 5x7 back for you.

steve simmons

Denis P. · Dec 30, 2005

Thanks for the replies so far

After some thinking, I think I'll make a "reducing back" - i.e. an adapter/frame which will allow me to use the 5x7 B&J back I already have on another camera. Getting "full plate" film could prove to be a big hassle (and an expensive one, I guess...).
Since I already have a good 5x7 back, I'll use it. Besides, tolerances for the reducing back are not that critical as in film holders.

The only remaining problem is the tripod - ie. tripod mount. The existing "turntable" mount is unusable to me as it is. I think I'll get some kind of "Deardorff" base plate made from aluminum - to fit the existing circular hole in the bottom, so that I can use my sturdy Manfrotto tripod. I've been busy all afternoon today, preparing technical drawings with measurements, etc... I was lucky to find an easy to use (and free) software

Attached are the photos of the existing "turntable" tripod mount, and a photo I found of Deardorff baseplate. Shouldn't be too expensive to have made from aluminum or something similar (and not too heavy)..

The camera itself looks really nice - it has a rather long bellows draw (about 400 mm) - longer than anything else I have. Also, the existing 8.5x6.5" back with ground glass can be handy in checking lens coverage

Regards,

Denis

Seele · Dec 31, 2005

I have one as well complete with all the accessories and in its original cases (the tripod legs are in a separate case). It is actually a very poor copy of a pre-war Japanese camera which was advertised in the BJA, and judging by my example, it was worse than the first woodwork project by a child. Four different types of wood were used, and the gaps everywhere were filled with a liberal doze of filler, and the whole thing drenched in dark polyurethane, and the rack gears made out of a semi-transluscent plastics prone to stripping. The first thing I did was to strip the whole thing and had it reassembled properly and then refinished in a penetrating wax finish. I sure hope your example is somewhat better in this respect.

For me I had built a custom back and holder for taking calotype paper, "squared-up A4" size. But I do think that you can make it into a 5X7 by making a suitable reducing back, especially for long-focus work.

raucousimages · Dec 31, 2005

Check out www.wetplate.com you might rethink doing some work on glass. they sell a great kit for doing negs or ambro/tin types. I can tell you it is a lot of fun and easy to cut your own plates.

Denis P. · Dec 31, 2005

Seele said:
I have one as well complete with all the accessories and in its original cases (the tripod legs are in a separate case). It is actually a very poor copy of a pre-war Japanese camera which was advertised in the BJA, and judging by my example, it was worse than the first woodwork project by a child.

Seele, could you provide some photos of your kit? It would be nice to see how the whole kit looks like - you can send anything you might have by e-mail...

Mine doesn't look bad, and it defnitely has all metal parts - and it looks and feels quite OK. No plastic anywhere. A bit wobbly perhaps, but given the age, I guess it's a lot better than some of the Koronas or B&Js you can find on ebay

It will be quite usable once I make the adapted back.

Denis

Seele · Jan 1, 2006

Denis P. said:
Seele, could you provide some photos of your kit? It would be nice to see how the whole kit looks like - you can send anything you might have by e-mail...

Mine looks identical to yours, but with some detail differences: the tubing for running the Packard-type shutter had completely perished so I had to get it replaced. But the full kit includes several accessories, includes a trellis hood skeleton which fits into the studs at the front of the front standard which you are supposed to drape your focussing cloth over to shield the lens, and also a bent piece of wire whose ends fit into the two swivelling brackets at the upper end of the sides of the camera back, for holding up the focussing cloth.

Mine doesn't look bad, and it defnitely has all metal parts - and it looks and feels quite OK. No plastic anywhere. A bit wobbly perhaps, but given the age, I guess it's a lot better than some of the Koronas or B&Js you can find on ebay

Perhaps your example is of a better vintage than mine, if it has all-metal rack gear rather than plastics ones. I cannot say if it is any better than the Koronas or B&Js, the bellows is quite inferior in my opinion, and has a tendency to pull the front towards the back.

Denis P. · Jan 3, 2006

Seele said:
But the full kit includes several accessories, includes a trellis hood skeleton which fits into the studs at the front of the front standard which you are supposed to drape your focussing cloth over to shield the lens, and also a bent piece of wire whose ends fit into the two swivelling brackets at the upper end of the sides of the camera back, for holding up the focussing cloth.

Do you have any photos of the "trellis hood skeleton" and the "darkcloth bent wire" support?

I'd like to see how those look like, so that I can make something similar.

BTW, I made a couple of lensboards today, the new bottom plate (tripod adapter) is being machined from aluminum, and the adapter back is drying (being glued together from two pieces).

In a couple of days I think it will be in full working order and quite usable for 5x7 and 4x5 formats (those are the backs I have for a B&J 5x7 camera)

Denis

Denis P. · Jan 5, 2006

A quick update...

The adapter back is more or less done - just needs the final finish.

Also, I'm still considering options for fastening the 5x7 B&J back to the adapter back.

I'm lucky to have an uncle who's handy with woodworking, and who has access to lots of fancy machinery, so this was in fact done without too much trouble.

Denis

Ole · Jan 5, 2006

Denis P. said:
Do you have any photos of the "trellis hood skeleton" and the "darkcloth bent wire" support?

I'd like to see how those look like, so that I can make something similar.

There are some pictures on the Shen Hao website which may show just that..

Denis P. · Jan 10, 2006

Well, the adapter back (frame) is finished, and the circular bottom plate in the Deardorff style has been machined out of aluminum. The camera is ready to shoot!

The biggest problem was how to solve the fasteners for the existing backs I have - i.e. how to fasten those back to the frame. Finally I managed a DIY solution - I got the idea from small picture frame "hooks"...

Anyway, the photos are attached - I couldn't resist, and added also a photo of the happy owner

Regards,

Denis

Seele · Jan 12, 2006

Hi Dennis,

Sorry for being late; and good work you have done.

I managed to find the original instruction manual for the camera (which was actually in the case all along) and have scanned this picture of the camera on the cover, which should give you some idea of what it's supposed to look like.

Interestingly, the instruction book states that it used bevelled rack-and-pinion gears rather than straight ones, on mine they are straight and as mentioned before, the rack gears were moulded out of very poor grade plastics. I hope your example actually complies closer to the description.

All the best!

What to do with a full-plate "Chinese Deardorff"?

Denis P.

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