What to do if confronted?

noseoil · Oct 16, 2007

"If this was on school property, report it to the school authority. Especially if you have proof of his assault or battery."

RW, I disagree with this approach entirely. Here is why. The school system in most localities I have seen are very much stuck on their own (limited) authority. They will do anything to prevent the intervention of the legal system, as it makes them look bad in the public eye and becomes public record. This is why I said to go to the legal system first and not the school system. Most schools are run by people who are too "touchy feely" to understand conflict resolution in the real world. They have been politically neutered and are thus irrelevant in this case. Force must be met with greater force and power with greater power. Individual rights have been pushed aside and I disagree with the approach completely. Best, tim

P.S. Please read the order in which I have suggested actions in the case.

w35773 · Oct 16, 2007

Markok765 said:
For the person that gave legal advice, would be advisable to do if its only one punch? Also, as a minor, can I do this? What should I expect for compensation?

As a father of a 15 year-old, I would advise my son (and you) to take it like a man and be more careful next time. If the guy keeps after you, then take it to the next level.

You're a kid and he's a kid. I am uncomfortable about making a court case out kids doing kid's stuff.

You provoked him and he responded disproportionately. I think both of you owe the other an apology. How's that for compensation?

Regards,
Russell

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Oct 16, 2007

It's been a long time since I've been in high school, and NOW I'm learning you can press assault charges on someone when they punch you?

I thought punching people like me was just a custom of my stupid little hick country town. When I was telling the superintendents or whatever they were (janitors, really), they would either roll their eyes or yawn a warning to the bully.

Press charges?? No F---in way! I should be rich by now, or at least I could have bankrupted that stupid place by suing the pants of everyone.

Tim Gray · Oct 16, 2007

BrianShaw said:
If it was a girl you should have stood there and taken the abuse. It might be a sign that she likes you. If not, it is good experience for married life.

Nice. Thanks for the laugh.

copake_ham · Oct 16, 2007

noseoil said:
RW, I disagree with this approach entirely. Here is why. The school system in most localities I have seen are very much stuck on their own (limited) authority. They will do anything to prevent the intervention of the legal system, as it makes them look bad in the public eye and becomes public record. This is why I said to go to the legal system first and not the school system. Most schools are run by people who are too "touchy feely" to understand conflict resolution in the real world. They have been politically neutered and are thus irrelevant in this case. Force must be met with greater force and power with greater power. Individual rights have been pushed aside and I disagree with the approach completely. Best, tim

P.S. Please read the order in which I have suggested actions in the case.

I respectfully have to disagree with this statement. Most schools have a zero tolerance position regarding violence on premises; particularly since Columbine. And many schools now have on-premises security personnel to prevent violence whether student-to-student or student-to-teacher etc.

While schools may attempt to "understand" the motivation - they will not tolerate the violence. In fact, some schools now have a "zero touching" policy. This led to a suspension of a student at a Midwest school for hugging another - something that hit the national news.

Problems such as Markok experienced usually arise "off campus" where students seek to "settle scores" precisely because it is not tolerated "on campus". The fact that he was assaulted "on-campus" should be reported to the school authorities and I fully expect he will achieve redress.

Drew B. · Oct 16, 2007

BrianShaw said:
If it was a girl you should have stood there and taken the abuse. It might be a sign that she likes you. If not, it is good experience for married life.

Thanks Brian...needed a bit of amusement and you provided it!

walter23 · Oct 16, 2007

Markok765 said:
I was taking a candid of someone in my class, and they tried to hit me.

What should I do then?

Don't take candids of the guy again

pentaxuser · Oct 16, 2007

If you are going to continue to be accepted as the school photographer by classmates and others in the school, you'd need their acceptance and tolerance of your activities.

You don't really need anyone to tell you how you go about that. Any pupil has had to learn how to live with others by your age or you'd have been in conflict before now.

Yes you can adopt an equally adversial approach in return and it may win you the battle with said classmate but it's likely to bring an end to your photojournalistic ambitions and thereby lose you the war.

The consequences are: He gets punished and you get told off for taking candids and told not to do it again. Remember the school's objective is the maintenance of order and this overrides your and your classmates desired outcomes.

That's classic lose(you)/lose(him).What you want is win/win and a school authority adopting a neutral stance because what you are doing is not causing a problem for anyone.

pentaxuser

haris · Oct 16, 2007

Well, as I was in European, Eastern, communist school, I won't give any advice to Marko. Instead, this is what happened few weeks ago.

I was photographing around and one girl approached to me and said she wouldn't like to be photographed. I didn't photographed her, and I told her so. But, I also told her there are zillions people with mobile phones with cameras, people with video cameras (tourists and locals), and if someone really wants to photograph her, that person can easy to use telephoto lens and photograph her from distance hidden. So she simply can't "defend" herself, she must be photographed or videotaper, intentionaly or accidentally by many people numbers of times. And we who use cameras in a way that everyone can see us are, if nothing, and oposite of those who use mobile phone cameras, more "clear" in our intentions because if we want to do something "dirty" we would hide ourselves. So, we are people she should fear least, more dangerous for her are those who make candid photos of her with mobile phone cameras and like.

She didn't tell anything for a few moments, and then she told I was right. Then she walked away...

Oh, and, I still didn't photographed her.

So, Marko, you can try to explain to people that, if someone really wants to photograph them, there is no way to avoid that, so they should be relax and not think too much about that..

I know I don't care if anyone try to photograph me.

Markok765 · Oct 16, 2007

haris said:
Well, as I was in European, Eastern, communist school, I won't give any advice to Marko. Instead, this is what happened few weeks ago.

I was photographing around and one girl approached to me and said she wouldn't like to be photographed. I didn't photographed her, and I told her so. But, I also told her there are zillions people with mobile phones with cameras, people with video cameras (tourists and locals), and if someone really wants to photograph her, that person can easy to use telephoto lens and photograph her from distance hidden. So she simply can't "defend" herself, she must be photographed or videotaper, intentionaly or accidentally by many people numbers of times. And we who use cameras in a way that everyone can see us are, if nothing, and oposite of those who use mobile phone cameras, more "clear" in our intentions because if we want to do something "dirty" we would hide ourselves. So, we are people she should fear least, more dangerous for her are those who make candid photos of her with mobile phone cameras and like.

She didn't tell anything for a few moments, and then she told I was right. Then she walked away...

Oh, and, I still didn't photographed her.

So, Marko, you can try to explain to people that, if someone really wants to photograph them, there is no way to avoid that, so they should be relax and not think too much about that..

I know I don't care if anyone try to photograph me.

Hvala puno!

There are security cameras at my school, so I will tell them something about that!

film_guy · Oct 16, 2007

BrianShaw said:
If it was a girl you should have stood there and taken the abuse. It might be a sign that she likes you. If not, it is good experience for married life.

Hahahah, so very true.

Murray@uptowngallery · Oct 17, 2007

Hmm, like this?

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

mark · Oct 17, 2007

Markok765 said:
Some of us like to put the limits to get more unique photos, but landscape is also great!

I am surprised no one caught this.

You push the limits you suffer the consequences. Both good and bad consequences. You say he tried to hit you, Did he hit you or not? if he did not then I would say he was firing a warning shot over your bow and you should listen. And no, a school is not a public place. Most schools have policies about photography in the building. Check your school's policies. If there is no policy, take it to the head administrator and get their opinion. If you have their backing to take images for your own personal use the it is easier to have their backing if you take the picture of someone who does not like it and they react accordingly. The student did not have a right to throw the punch, but conversely did you have the right to take the picture? Check the policies. The school I work in has a strict policy for picture taking by students. All pictures in the school, of students, must have a school related purpose; yearbook, class project, etc, or a signed waiver from the parents of the student.

If he landed the punch take it to the administrator or dean or whoever takes care of discipline in your neck of the woods. If he did not land it, suck it up, be a man, and learn your lesson.

You are not in America but the way I understand Canadian schools, students at school are treated in much the same way as students here in the states. As long as you are in school the school acts as your guardian from the time you enter the building/school bus unitl the time you get home. As the direct authority over your care and well being during those time they need to be informed just like you need to inform your parents if your sibling or someone else is picking on you. If you take it to the cops they will ask you if you took it to the school. If the incident happened off school grounds and you feel it necessary to file a complaint do it. Other wise move on and be more careful.

Lee Shively · Oct 17, 2007

"What to do if confronted?"

Blow it off and don't let it get you down. There's always going to be another picture to take.

Since you said they "tried" to hit you, you suffered nothing but a bruised ego. There will be more of that in future, of that you can be sure.

Don Wallace · Oct 18, 2007

w35773 said:
... I am uncomfortable about making a court case out kids doing kid's stuff.

You provoked him and he responded disproportionately. I think both of you owe the other an apology. How's that for compensation?

Regards,
Russell

Marko, I have two suggestions.

First, Russel gave you some very wise advice. Take it. You will be a better person for it.

Second, if you intend to become a professional photographer, learn that using photographs of ordinary people without their permission, particularly if you have invaded their privacy, can land you in a civil suit that you will almost certainly lose.

Time to grow up.

Captain_joe6 · Oct 18, 2007

If nothing else, buy a nice sturdy camera and next time someone throws a punch at you, give them a Nikon (or Canon) brain duster. Shouldn't happen again.

Murray@uptowngallery · Oct 18, 2007

Argus C-3 (Brick) and Kodak Medallist are touted as photographic weapons of yesteryear, but I have too much respect for these machines to misuse them. (Perhaps to save a life).

filmbug · Oct 19, 2007

Privacy?

Don Wallace said:
Marko, I have two suggestions.

First, Russel gave you some very wise advice. Take it. You will be a better person for it.

Second, if you intend to become a professional photographer, learn that using photographs of ordinary people without their permission, particularly if you have invaded their privacy, can land you in a civil suit that you will almost certainly lose.

Time to grow up.

How does privacy apply in this situation?

filmbug · Oct 19, 2007

Markok765 said:
I was taking a candid of someone in my class, and they tried to hit me.

What should I do then?

What happened to you didn't really have anything to do with photography. Sounds like that someone is a schoolyard bully to begin with. In any case, have a look a the following link.

http://ambientlight.ca/laws.shtml
Ambient Light - Photography Laws

Steve Roberts · Oct 19, 2007

Markok765 said:
I was taking a candid of someone in my class, and they tried to hit me.

What should I do then?

Learn from the experience and exercise a bit more tact and diplomacy in future.
As for the talk of all the legalities, etc. let's keep this in context - it was a spat between two schoolboys of the type that happens in schools every day. All part of growing up.

Steve

nc5p · Oct 21, 2007

Use a longer lens next time. I was a yearbook photographer in high school. I got all the embarassing shots, like the kids cutting class and sneaking back to campus. They started acting stupid and got detention. I also got one of a kid writing cheat notes on his hand, that one also ended up in the yearbook. There was this girl who totally flipped anytime there was a camera around. It turned out it was her nose, she got a nose job the next summer. My son's high school forbids cameras on campus, though they have a photography class (F on any shots turned in if taken on campus).

mabman · Oct 21, 2007

As mentioned above, the easiest way to "cover" yourself is to officially become a yearbook photographer - although you may have to convince whoever is in charge that your style is appropriate material. That way, you can carry a camera around the school "officially" and if anyone gives you trouble, it can quickly become a student committee issue, who generally have more clout when dealing with student-related issues, and the administration are more likely to listen to them, etc.

On a practical note, if you intended to take a "candid" shot, and you got caught, then I would think you weren't being very subtle about it and need more practice I also have a Stylus Epic, and while it's a very good P&S camera, it's a little loud if you're in a confined space. Perhaps if you intend to do a lot of this a Konica AF would be better (I've never used one, but a lot of people swear by them for their lack of noise).

Legally, I'm not sure where you stand if you didn't have explicit permission to take pictures in school. Technically, here in Manitoba at least, the public high schools are property of the school division they're in, and all of them have some form of "no trespassing" signs on them, so I believe they're set up as "private property". However, the school division is a construct of the provincial government, and has the ability to levy property taxes, so I wonder if a case could be made that they are actually public places... I'm not a lawyer, that would be something to ask one if you decide to pursue this.

Markok765 · Oct 21, 2007

mabman said:
On a practical note, if you intended to take a "candid" shot, and you got caught, then I would think you weren't being very subtle about it and need more practice I also have a Stylus Epic, and while it's a very good P&S camera, it's a little loud if you're in a confined space. Perhaps if you intend to do a lot of this a Konica AF would be better (I've never used one, but a lot of people swear by them for their lack of noise).

So, do I have to be sneaky just before/during taking the photo to have a good candid? It is loud with the focusing/winding. I just put myself and my camera about a meter from him.

Curt · Oct 21, 2007

My son's high school forbids cameras on campus, though they have a photography class (F on any shots turned in if taken on campus).

Adolf Hitler High?

On the other hand my school forbad, is that a word?, guns on campus, though they had a rifle club. I was a promarksman, marksman, marksman first class and sharpshooter by the time I graduated.

btw, Ted Bundy went to my highschool.

mabman · Oct 22, 2007

Markok765 said:
So, do I have to be sneaky just before/during taking the photo to have a good candid? It is loud with the focusing/winding. I just put myself and my camera about a meter from him.

Well, I think it depends on the situation - if you look up Garry Winogrand, one of the masters of "street" photography, he wasn't very subtle - but he was also outside, on the sidewalks of New York/LA much of the time, and basically just kept walking after taking a shot. In a confined space, you'll have to be more subtle (also I don't think Winogrand saw the same person twice that way, whereas you're in classes with them regularly).

In your situation, other than the Konica Hexar AF, I don't think you'll be able to get away with an AF camera - too noisy. You might have more success with one of Olympus' older compact rangefinders, like the aperture-priority XA or its older shutter-priority cousin the 35RC. That way you can pre-focus and/or set aperture and/or shutter speed before taking the shot.

What to do if confronted?

Membership Council

haris

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency