What the heck is this?

Pfiltz · Jan 23, 2013

Haven't shot roll film for like 6 months, since I've gotten into 4x5.

This is a fresh roll of Ilford Delta 100. Chemicals are fresh. Developed in Arista at 65 Degrees for 7 minutes, stop for 1 minute, fix for 5.

It's not dried yet, sure not sure how it's going to scan or print, or if it's even possible.

Does Ilford Delta look like this when it's properly shot, and developed? I have some Ultra EDU 100, that developed fine just like 4 days ago.. Clear film rebate, and neg's looked like they usually do..

Any ideas?

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Prof_Pixel · Jan 23, 2013

Looks like too little fixing.

Ian Grant · Jan 23, 2013

It's not fixed fully. Refix ASAP.

Fixer gets slower as you use it and you need to take this into account.

Ian

nickrapak · Jan 23, 2013

Prof_Pixel said:
Looks like too little fixing.

I agree. Toss it in the fixer for another 3-5 minutes, and see if it gets any better. If so, you need to mix up some more fixer.

Pfiltz · Jan 23, 2013

Thanks.

It's back in the fix... We'll see

Pfiltz · Jan 23, 2013

Thanks... I think that did it... Looks quite a bit better. The other roll shot last week, had some slight fogging in the middle of the roll, that a 2nd bath in the fix cleared up. I did agitate the film while in the fix off and on, but maybe just not enough time... Been a while since I've played with roll film.

We'll see how bad I mucked up that film by man handling it

Appreciate it.

250swb · Jan 23, 2013

Some films do take a bit longer to fix, but if you gave it 5 minutes I would suspect the fix isn't diluted correctly or is exhausted.

Steve

Pfiltz · Jan 23, 2013

Thanks guys...
It worked..

I'll replace that fix as well.

winger · Jan 23, 2013

For both TMax and Delta, I fix for 5-8 minutes with rapid fix. Usually, it's 6 1/2 or 7 if the fix is fresh. Then wash for longer as well.

dorff · Jan 24, 2013

This recently happened to me as well. I realised immediately what was wrong once I had released the spool to remove the film. Of course, I had to dry the film before I could reload and re-fix it. But there seems to be no harm done. AFAIK, the emulsion is quite tough when dry, so your man-handling it should not have done much damage even though it was only partially fixed.

You can do a drop test for fixer exhaustion. I think there is a recipe for the test solution in the Darkroom Cookbook, but it should be on the internet as well. A film should clear in fixer within about 90 seconds, and you can extend that to 5 min to be absolutely sure everything is out. If it takes longer than 90 sec to clear, start to suspect your fixer.

jochen · Jan 24, 2013

I think a clearing time of only 90 sec is not realistic for all types of emulsions, I think Deltas and TMax need more time. The normal fixing time is two times of the clearing time for normal emulsions and three times for Delta and TMax with structure cristals.
You take a small piece of film from the end looking out of the cartridge (for 35 mm) and place one drop of fixer on the emulsion. Then wait until it gets nearly transparent. Then dip the film into a small glass with fixer and agitate it a little bit. Take the time until you cannot see a difference beween the first clear spot and the rest of the film any longer. Place a white piece of paper with text under the glass so you can see better the transparency. With this method you can check the exhaustion of you fixer and the time for an unknown film.

ath · Jan 24, 2013

The clearing time varies quite a bit with fixer type (brand), dilution and temperature. I always determine the clearing time before fixing and fix thrice as long. With 120 you might have to sacrifice a roll for this.

amac212 · Jan 24, 2013

Yes, pink/purple cast almost always indicates under-fixing or exhaustion of your fixer. I've always heard that longer fixing and washing times are required with T-Grain films in order to clear special dyes added to the film base.

Jeff Kubach · Jan 25, 2013

I notice it takes longer to fix T-max films.

Jeff

dorff · Jan 25, 2013

amac212 said:
Yes, pink/purple cast almost always indicates under-fixing or exhaustion of your fixer. I've always heard that longer fixing and washing times are required with T-Grain films in order to clear special dyes added to the film base.

Although fixing of tabular grain films may take slightly longer, this has nothing to do with clearing of the dyes. The only way to effectively clear the dyes is to wash the film thoroughly in water before or after fixing. There are two approaches. One is to presoak the film in water for 5 min. That is quite effective in removing the larger part of the dye. The other is to clear it post-development and fixing. If you are using one-shot developer, then no problem. But if you re-use developer, especially with replenishment, your developing solution is going to accumulate more and more dye. In that case a pre-soak is recommended. I also dislike dye carry-over into the stop bath, as it masks the indicator and since it is re-used, will also accumulate. My own process is to develop with single-shot, then to do a double rinse after development, and then to fix after that. I do not get carry-over of dye into the fixer. Most of the dye gets thrown out with the developer, and a little bit clears during rinsing. If any remains, it gets cleared in final washing. Dye is not an issue for darkroom printing, but it is very annoying for scanning.

The Film Developing Cookbook further clarifies the above. It recommends three 5 min soaks in water to remove the dye, if I recall correctly.

ath · Jan 25, 2013

dorff said:
The only way to effectively clear the dyes is to wash the film thoroughly in water[...]

That's my experience as well. Fixing longer because of the dyes means you effectively start to wash them out in the fix instead of water.

Pfiltz · Jan 25, 2013

dorff said:
There are two approaches. One is to pre-soak the film in water for 5 min.

I actually do a pre-wash of my films, roll and sheet, however; it's not for 5 minutes. Wasn't sure how that would affect the film. I develop my roll/sheet in a patterson tank. I do a pre-wash on each which is fill, and swhoosh around, and dump 3 times, then I'm ready to put in my developer.. I'll try to extend my pre-wash longer on my roll film now, and see if that helps.

dorff · Jan 25, 2013

ath said:
That's my experience as well. Fixing longer because of the dyes means you effectively start to wash them out in the fix instead of water.

Exactly. Prolonged fixing degrades the image, too. Every reputable resource advises against fixing longer for the sake of removing dye. I prefer the fixer to be clear, so that I can see whether the film has cleared properly or not.

dorff · Jan 25, 2013

Pfiltz said:
I actually do a pre-wash of my films, roll and sheet, however; it's not for 5 minutes. Wasn't sure how that would affect the film. I develop my roll/sheet in a patterson tank. I do a pre-wash on each which is fill, and swhoosh around, and dump 3 times, then I'm ready to put in my developer.. I'll try to extend my pre-wash longer on my roll film now, and see if that helps.

In my experience, TMax takes more than just a rinse or two to lose its dye. The emulsion has to swell and soften first, before the dye will be released completely, I think. The Film Developing Cookbook recommends 3 stand washes of 5 min each, i.e. fill with water, stand 5 min, discard water, repeat...

Since I use Rodinal single-shot at 1:50 with developing times typically around 10-15 min (after a pre-soak), I don't see much dye get past the developer stage. For other films, the dye is really not much of an issue, and I more often use 1:25 without a pre-soak. Anyway, it is good to experiment and see what works for oneself. TMax (both versions) is a great product, and worth the extra bit of effort.

ToddB · Jan 25, 2013

I love Delta 100 film. Meduim format is awesome.

ToddB

What the heck is this?

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