what the heck is a photograph anyways?

removed account4 · Sep 25, 2014

in another thread an image was posted to show a developer and film "worked" it was suggested
that it should have full contrast ( blacks and whites ) because this " isnt victorian england" ....
why does this even matter ?
its like suggesting all color photographs have to have the vivid color pallet as velvia or grain like tri x or autochromes. ....
or they are terrible / not real photographs.

this isnt a what is art post, or a photograph just has to be made with light sensitive material
and chemical rays of light ( which excludes digital image making ).
over the years i have heard wacky studff like color photographs arent real photographs, or if something isnt a portrait it isnt a photograph...

do you have any biases or prejudices about what a photograph is or isnt ?

BrianShaw · Sep 25, 2014

Not really. But I do have biases about what is good or bad. I like Victorian England so grey/gray images are OK. Even soft focus is OK to me, but the softer it gets the less I am interested. I don't like "street photography" that shows primarilly the back of people's heads, or doing stuff that isn't really very interesting. But it is all legitimate photography.

pdeeh · Sep 25, 2014

"isn't Victorian England"?

I hadn't quite understood that colour only started to become apparent in the World sometime in the 20th Century ...

Y'learn something every day at APUG

BrianShaw · Sep 25, 2014

I'm even OK with photography that doesn't use film... but that can't be admitted or written here.

pdeeh · Sep 25, 2014

When I hear the word "photograph" I reach for my revolver

BrianShaw · Sep 25, 2014

revolver?... how very Victorian!

snapguy · Sep 25, 2014

big tent

I am a sort of "big tent" guy. I think we should include a lot of forms of photography and not exclude them. Just because I think somebody else's photos are trite or way to obvious, that does not make them non-photographs. There is the question, of course, of how much post-decisive moment manipulation is permitted. I'm thinking Photoslop here. There is a point at which a photograph stops being that and becomes a photo illustration. But where is the line? Each person has to decide for themselves. I once saw a photograph of a stream running through a rural glade. Every rock and blade of grass was perfect, trees on both sides of the stream matched perfectly, like mirror images. Somebody Photosloped the devil out of that one. But then I realized if someone was publishing a kids' book about goblins and trolls and such that might the perfect photo illustration. My attitude is, "well, admit it is a photo illustration, not a photograph" and get on with it. Too much "how many angels can stand on a head of a pin" debate going on. Take more photographs. Use more film.

removed account4 · Sep 25, 2014

snapguy said:
I once saw a photograph of a stream running through a rural glade. Every rock and blade of grass was perfect, trees on both sides of the stream matched perfectly, like mirror images. Somebody Photosloped the devil out of that one. But then I realized if someone was publishing a kids' book about goblins and trolls and such that might the perfect photo illustration. My attitude is, "well, admit it is a photo illustration, not a photograph" and get on with it. Too much "how many angels can stand on a head of a pin" debate going on. Take more photographs. Use more film.

heavily manipulated b/w images (in camera with filters or shutter speed/fstop use or in darkroom via burn/dodge/combination/developer/toning
can be ( to me at least ) just as photo illustration-y as with photoshop ... i once had a debate with someone who claimed
that time lapse image making and darkroom work wasn't manipulations and it showed "reality" uncontrived whatever that means
no angels no pins ..

just curious to read what people think is and isn't ... a photograph

bsdunek · Sep 25, 2014

Being involved in the art world, I run into this all the time. I get remarks that my Lumen prints aren't photography, or my Ink-O-Dye prints. We have two people in our association that use Di*i*al, and there is always the question, are they really photographers? This is buy others not the three of us - we're fine with each other.

Anyway, this is the definition I use, and if anybody doesn't like it, don't buy my work.

"Photography is originally a greek word so it has the same meaning in greek.
it consists of two words put together. "photo" which derives from "phos" and it means "light" in english, and graphy,which probably derives from graphi , which can mean write or drawing. The exact form in greek is φωτογραφία (fotografia)"

So to me, anything we do that starts with light and ends up with a picture is photography - just IMHO.

pdeeh · Sep 25, 2014

BrianShaw said:
revolver?... how very Victorian!

it takes Silver bullets, of course ...

Rick A · Sep 25, 2014

BrianShaw said:
I'm even OK with photography that doesn't use film... but that can't be admitted or written here.

You mean like Anthotypes, lumens, chemograms and such?

BrianShaw · Sep 25, 2014

Yes, of course... solargrams and sonograms too. What else would you think I meant?

NedL · Sep 25, 2014

pdeeh said:
When I hear the word "photograph" I reach for my revolver

I think the creative intent and purpose of the photographer matters. So if it's made by light and the creator says it's a photograph, that's good enough for me.

dpurdy · Sep 25, 2014

On both my feet there is a photographic negative made by the sun and the straps on my sandals.

MartinCrabtree · Sep 25, 2014

I haven't the time but if I did I'd argue about this.

cliveh · Sep 25, 2014

I think I have biases or prejudices about appreciation of a photograph. For instance I dont believe it is a fashion about what is now popular (unfortunately this seems to be the case), like deadpan portraits or any image that leaves me with an indifferent feeling about what Im looking at. I like to see images that exhibit dynamic compositions, decisive moments, presence, mood, patterns, organic form, etc.

Maris · Sep 25, 2014

If you make the concept of "photograph" too broad you also make it meaningless. For example if you deem "photograph" to include all pictures that start with subject matter, light, lens, image, and a megapixel sensor then you must admit all realist paintings...including the Mona Lisa!

BrianShaw · Sep 25, 2014

I know this is a bit of a tangent, but is pointilism digital painting, or is all painting analog... philosophically speaking, of course? I wonder this question every time there is a discussion of "what the heck is a photograph anyway?"

pdeeh · Sep 25, 2014

It's all definitely something ... maybe ...

Alan Klein · Sep 25, 2014

Maris said:
If you make the concept of "photograph" too broad you also make it meaningless. For example if you deem "photograph" to include all pictures that start with subject matter, light, lens, image, and a megapixel sensor then you must admit all realist paintings...including the Mona Lisa!

The artist is writing from his imagination with paint. A photograph writes a recorded moment in time with light.

removed account4 · Sep 25, 2014

Alan Klein said:
The artist is writing from his imagination with paint. A photograph writes a recorded moment in time with light.

hi alan, while i understand what you are saying ...
a photographer does not always do this.
i have crafted negatives out of materials
i have made negatives of warm wax and glass and inks
(as well as other things), and the only moment of time they recorded
was the time it took to expose the paper ... and it was momentS, ...

bdial · Sep 26, 2014

Light recorded on a light sensitive medium.

There are lots of ways for the light to get there, and many sorts of media that are affected by the light hitting them.

Ghostman · Sep 26, 2014

bdial said:
Light recorded on a light sensitive medium.

There are lots of ways for the light to get there, and many sorts of media that are affected by the light hitting them.

And what is an x-ray? I think they're photographs and very beautiful ones too.

eddie · Sep 26, 2014

jnanian said:
do you have any biases or prejudices about what a photograph is or isnt ?

Not anymore. There was a time I probably had preconceptions of what a photograph is but, thankfully, I got past that.

darkosaric · Sep 26, 2014

jnanian said:
what a photograph is or isnt ?

If you paint with light - for me that is a photograph. Time lapse, multiple exposure, B&W, high or low contrast ... all for me is a photograph.
I am not trying to show reality in my photos, I am trying to show how reality looks in my head .

what the heck is a photograph anyways?

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