What The Best Bargain Medium Format These Days Due to Digital?

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 15, 2008

Even though the Pentax 67 looks like a 35mm SLR, the Bronica SQ system cameras feel more like a 35mm SLR than any other MF camera when equipped with a prism and winder grip. The winding lever is just where you expect it to be on the right side of the camera, operable with the thumb; it's light and easy to focus, and the distance between your eye and your hand all feels very natural, if you're used to shooting a manual 35mm SLR.

senwosret · Sep 16, 2008

tiberiustibz said:
Unless you're looking for artsy holgaish cameras you're best off with a rangefinder or Twin lens relflex (TLR). Remember the lens is the only part of a camera that makes a difference in the end quality, the rest is a glorified box. I got the seagul chinese imitation and have been pretty pleased, but the optics could be a bit better. Look for a yashicamat of something of that nature. There is one TLR that you can change lenses, someone might be of help there.

If you have money to burn or just want to show off you can get a Hasselblad. I'm not nearly an expert but I used one once and its completely awesome. Nice lenses too.

Hasselblads are quite cheap today compared to yesterday. Try to afford one, get it overhauled if it´s old and you will have a cameera that´ll last your lifetime. And you won´t regret the purchase either. Only adding some small extras to your outfit over the years, such as extra magasines, lenses and filters. That makes you concentrating on the pictures, which it´s all about!
Cheers!
Patrik Paulsson
Gothenburg, Sweden

David Brown · Sep 16, 2008

Doug Knutsen said:
Most of the systems discussed are good ones, have strong points, weak points, and such, but no one has addressed the functioning issue. I have an RB67 Pro S and seven backs for it. All of the backs needed the light seals replaced and six of them don't index properly when advancing the film. I recently upgraded to the RZ67 and love it. All three backs I bought to go with it are fine.

Hmm... My experience was different. All 3 used backs I have acquired for my RB ProS system are perfectly fine. You had a run of bad luck, but I would not attribute an absolute "cause/effect" relationship based on either of our anecdotal experiences.

domaz · Sep 16, 2008

Good point about the backs not functioning- another reason to go with P67 in my mind. As long as a Pentax 6x7 winds correctly and the shutter fires you are pretty much good to go. No leaf shutter or back problems to deal with. On the other hand if you assemble a Bronica or Mamiya kit you have to hope the Camera works, the back works and the lens works (leaf shutters).

Changeling1 · Sep 16, 2008

Bronica GS-1

The GS-1 6x7 is worth looking into. It can also produce 6x4.5 and 6x6 negs with the correct film backs. The GS-1 is extremely durable and user friendly with Zenzanon glass being second to none. Once you've printed a 6x7 negative you'll likely not want to go any smaller but with a GS-1 you'll have that option.

Greg_E · Sep 16, 2008

Everyone that hates the RB and RZ systems can send them to me for proper disposal. I'll make sure those horrible devices never get back on the used camera market. I know this is a huge burden to carry, but I'll find a way to manage. And anyone that has those horrible Japanese lenses for the Mamiya 7/7II system can do the same.

David Brown · Sep 16, 2008

Greg_E said:
Everyone that hates the RB and RZ systems can send them to me for proper disposal. I'll make sure those horrible devices never get back on the used camera market. I know this is a huge burden to carry, but I'll find a way to manage. And anyone that has those horrible Japanese lenses for the Mamiya 7/7II system can do the same.

OK, you can have the RZs and the 7II lenses. The RBs come to me.

Larry L · Sep 16, 2008

1 1/2 years ago a friend introduced me to the Bronica S2A systems and I've never looked back. Still collecting lenses, but I have two bodies, three backs, two 75mm lenses, a 50mm WA, a 40mm WA and a 150 tele. All for less than $1300. There were a lot on Ebay until just recently. The extension tubes available on ebay make macro work very easy. The focus system goes much closer in than I was used to on my Nikon 35mm bodies. 1/2 life size on a 2 1/4 inch neg. is impressive if your into that stuff. Landscapes can easily be done with 400 ASA film out to 16 X 20 prints.

scott k · Sep 16, 2008

Hey, I've got an RZ kit for sale. Would someone please buy it so I can get a Mamiya 7?
Seriously, I haven't used the RZ that much because I am looking for a medium format kit that is lighter than my 4x5 kit. If I wasn't shooting 4x5 I think the RZ would be GREAT!

Scott

elekm · Sep 16, 2008

I think that in that price range ($1,000-$2,000), you can pretty much pick any medium format system -- one that fits your needs -- and not go wrong.

I would say to not focus on brand as the camera and system that has the features that you want and the lenses. One thing to remember is that the Carl Zeiss lenses continue to be more expensive than their Japanese counterparts.

2F/2F · Sep 17, 2008

Let us remember what the OP asked for:

"What system in the $1-2K range U.S. money, would give me the best bang for my buck as an all-around versatile system?"

Not the best. Not your favorite. Not what you use. Not the one that is most like a 35. Not the one that weighs more or less. Not the easiest to use. Not the one that is the most easily hand holdable...but the *best bang for the buck, while being an all-around versatile system*. The one that can do the most, and do it with extreme value.

As far as I see it, there are not all that many camera systems that meet the criterion of "all-around versatile". To me, "all-around versatile" means that the very versatility of the camera is its main draw more than any one feature; a workhorse camera. A pickup truck of a camera. To me, it means, at the least: 1. leaf shutter, 2. interchangeable magazines, 3. SLR, 4. Many accessories...more than one person would ever need, and 5. still manufactured or supported in some way, shape or form. Finally, of course, it should provide outstanding image quality at a wide range of print sizes.

The leaf shutter, interchangeable magazines, and being an SLR are a huge advantage in the area of versatility.

I would say to go with Hassy or a Mamiya RB/RZ, personally. You have the budget, so why not? You will be able to use flash in any situation, be able to exchange magazines, and the systems are still well supported. IMO, if you want to print square pictures, go with the Hassy, but if you will be cropping to fit standard printing papers, go with the Mamiya.

...my $0.02...

Greg_E · Sep 17, 2008

2F/2F said:
Let us remember what the OP asked for:

"What system in the $1-2K range U.S. money, would give me the best bang for my buck as an all-around versatile system?"

Not the best. Not your favorite. Not what you use. Not the one that is most like a 35. Not the one that weighs more or less. Not the easiest to use. Not the one that is the most easily hand holdable...but the *best bang for the buck, while being an all-around versatile system*. The one that can do the most, and do it with extreme value.

Which is why I immediately went RB/RZ way back in the beginning. Prices on RB gear are often lower than the 645 gear, and there is a reason why it was a professional model. Lots of professional level accessories and a good solid platform. To get current that would be the RZ ProIID, but that immediately falls outside of the price range. Same goes for the Mamiya 7II as a body and single lens will run almost $2000 used or nearly new. If I had wads of cash, I would get a 7II to compliment my 645, then the 645 would probably be limited to digital and macro work and the 7II would do all the rest. But wads of cash I do not have.

Anyone willing to send wads of cash and loads of gear for free to me would be welcome and I'll definitely provide my address. Even lenses for the Mamiya 7/7II would be welcome as I do have a very lonely 7 body (currently out on loan and maybe on the way to China right now).

PhotoJim · Sep 17, 2008

Ditto the Bronica SQ system. Yes, it's the system I bought, but I bought it for a reason. It maximized the bang for my buck. I was tempted to get Hasselblad gear but I didn't see any advantage to doing so other than being able to show people that I had a Hasselblad. The Bronica lenses are awfully good, the gear is well made and durable, and the whole system is very flexible. I still think it's the best value in professional-quality 120 photography.

Q.G. · Sep 17, 2008

When it comes to which camera to choose, never trust the advice from someone who apparently cannot make up his own mind which camera to choose...

PhotoJim · Sep 17, 2008

Q.G. said:
When it comes to which camera to choose, never trust the advice from someone who apparently cannot make up his own mind which camera to choose...

If you mean me, you'll notice I have a Nikon system (although large), a Bronica system (modest but good), and a bunch of miscellaneous toys that don't see much film but are fun to play with.

Q.G. · Sep 18, 2008

PhotoJim said:
If you mean me [...]

Yes, i meant you.
Don't try to justify, or even deny it: you "have GAS and" are "proud of it!"

Just couldn't resist. Was too easy.
And you will have noticed the funny-face.

But honoustly, i have too many cameras too.
Yet all of one "system".

PhotoJim · Sep 18, 2008

Q.G. said:
Yes, i meant you.
Don't try to justify, or even deny it: you "have GAS and" are "proud of it!"
/quote]

Sorry, I did miss the smiley so sorry for taking it too seriously.

I really do like the Bronica though.

And I like camera gear. I don't apologize for it. I like some better than others, mind.

ChrisC · Sep 18, 2008

I can only really throw my thoughts into the arena.

I recently was looking to get into a MF system, mostly used for outdoors stuff, especially hiking, and specifically my Nepal trip in Nov. I toyed with a few different formats but in the end an SLR was important to me, and the smaller sizes of 645 stuff was also really important. I ended up going with a Mamiya 645 Pro with metering prism and I'm over the moon with it. It's light enough, very comfortable to hold both with and without the power drive (I actually vastly prefer it without), and the metering prism on 645's are really low profile and unobtrusive. The more frames per roll is also another bonus because it means ultimately carrying less film. I like it so much I just ordered a 45mm lens and second back to go with it.

You're pretty lucky with your budget though. It'll let you pretty much pick almost every MF system out there within reason. I guess just choose what's important to you (portability, ultimate image quality, through the lens viewing or rangefinder) then settle on a format, and then you'll probably be down to only a couple of choices to err, choose from.

Greg_E · Sep 18, 2008

Chris, pick up one of the newish Arsat 30mm with the correct mount so that the metering works. SHould be able to get one for around $200-$300USD. It's a beast to carry as it weighs a ton, but the almost 180 degree (diagnal) may be well worth it in the mountains of Nepal. I have one of the older versions with a P6 mount adapter and it is decent in the central areas, way out at the edges you get a bit of Chromatic Aberation, but I think the newer design fixes a bunch of that. Or you could drop about $800 and get the Mamiya 24mm. Sorry haven't worked with the 45mm, my next closest in the 55mm which is decent, especially with the extension tubes for close up work.

Frank Hoerauf · Sep 18, 2008

do yourself a BIG favor , go on the classified here and look for mamiya rz67 the pro II is the model i have . its an awesome camera for the money. the lenses are razor sharp. its really a studio camera , a little heavy , but right now they are bargain basement prices. someone had a rz with a 110mm lens here for $500.just the other day. for your budget you could get a wide angle 50mm, and a 180mm portrait lens besides some filters tripod lightmeter, all used of course. you could go for mamiya 645afd but they are not as c
"cheap" because you can put a digital back on them. maybe that interests you if you think you might want to shoot digital in the future. well thats my two cents, hope it helps..........frank

ChrisC · Sep 19, 2008

Greg_E said:
Chris, pick up one of the newish Arsat 30mm with the correct mount so that the metering works. SHould be able to get one for around $200-$300USD. It's a beast to carry as it weighs a ton, but the almost 180 degree (diagnal) may be well worth it in the mountains of Nepal. I have one of the older versions with a P6 mount adapter and it is decent in the central areas, way out at the edges you get a bit of Chromatic Aberation, but I think the newer design fixes a bunch of that. Or you could drop about $800 and get the Mamiya 24mm. Sorry haven't worked with the 45mm, my next closest in the 55mm which is decent, especially with the extension tubes for close up work.

I think that's just too wide for me. I've got a 20-35mm on my EOS 30 and I can't make the 20mm end work at anything other than architecture photography. I think the 45mm should be about bang on for what I do/need, plus, being a poor student, after the purchase of the 45 and when I eventually come around to buying all the film I need, my wallet's going to be weeping something serious.

snegron · Sep 20, 2008

Best bang for the buck? I would say a Mamiya 645. Even the 645E is a good intro into medium format photography. At the currently low prices, starting with a 645 is a great way to experiment. If you decide you like medium format photography, then you can splurge on a more expensive or fancy system.

ozphoto · Sep 23, 2008

I have a Bronica 6x7 and love it to bits. It is quite light - more so than the Pentax and I love the larger neg. I pack it in my Lowepro backpack with the two backs and a couple of lenses and hardly notice it's there. Domaz is right - they are kinda rare these days, but much cheaper now than when I got mine. If you aren't looking for a long tele (250mm) they are a nice buy.

Chazzy · Sep 23, 2008

A Rapid-Omega 200 (the more desirable model) just went for under $200 on eBay. I don't understand why more people aren't clamoring for the Koni-Omega cameras and lenses. They're inexpensive, excellent and built like tanks. The viewfinder is bright too, and film flatness is likewise excellent.

tgphoto · Sep 23, 2008

Just picked up a Mamiya 7 off eBay for $400 and an 80mm off KEH for about $500, so for less than $1000 I've got a pretty sweet rig.

What The Best Bargain Medium Format These Days Due to Digital?

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