What shutter am I looking for-Tele Dynar 20cm

GregW · Jun 24, 2013

I found a front and rear element set of a 1920s-30s Voigtlander Tele-Dynar and would like to use it with my 9 x 12 Avus when I'm shooting on 120 film at 6 x 9. I assume this was stripped out of a Bergeil 6,5 x 9 set up? The dimensions are:
Rear element 26mm (threads od)
Front element 29mm
So, I need a shutter I can mount on the Avus that would hold this set.
Anybody have a clue? Ideas?
Thanks
Greg

E. von Hoegh · Jun 24, 2013

In addition to the threads, the spacing is critical.

GregW · Jun 24, 2013

Yes, I'm hoping a 6,5x9 Voigtlander Avus would have the correct size shutter and if I could locate one of those…This lens was supposed to fit it. it's listed in the manual as an accessory. But i think that sort of shutter should be pretty commonly used on cameras in that period? an Ibsor or Compur of the right size?

E. von Hoegh · Jun 24, 2013

GregW said:
Yes, I'm hoping a 6,5x9 Voigtlander Avus would have the correct size shutter and if I could locate one of thoseThis lens was supposed to fit it. it's listed in the manual as an accessory. But i think that sort of shutter should be pretty commonly used on cameras in that period? an Ibsor or Compur of the right size?

You would probably need to find a shutter which originally mounted that particular lens, unless you know the correct spacing you'll be guessing. Shutters of that era were far less standardised than today; for instance I have two pre WWII lenses mounted in the same size Compound shutters, both the threads and the tube lengths are different. Perhaps you can find and measure the shutter of an identical lens to get the dimensions you need. As I pointed out, spacing is critical - just because the cells screw in does not mean they are correctly spaced.

GregW · Jun 24, 2013

Thank you, Maybe someone with a nice 6 x 9 Bergheil or avus could chime in with measurements? please!

ntenny · Jun 24, 2013

All the Avi I've seen have had Compur shutters. I have a 6.5x9 at home that I can measure for diameter this evening, but as pointed out above there was a lot of variance in that era. Do you have a set of calipers to measure the lens threads?

-NT

GregW · Jun 24, 2013

Thanks Nathan,
I would love that. I don't have calipers but with very careful measuring i get 29mm in front and 26mm in back. this od of the lens mount threads.
Greg

ntenny · Jun 24, 2013

Hmm, it doesn't match anything on the list at http://www.suaudeau.eu/memo/pratique/Les_obturateurs_centraux.html. I don't know if that's good news or bad news; if the mounting was an unusual custom arrangement, that might reduce the chances of a "partial match" (like having the right threads but the wrong spacing).

As an aside, I just love the French word "obturateur" for "shutter"; because of the cognate with English "obdurate", it suggests to me not a properly working shutter, but a shutter that's stuck closed!

-NT

GregW · Jun 24, 2013

Try the google translate as I did "Core Plugs" ??! anyway, I'll hope the multiple question marks hides the answer. I bet my measurements are off by.5mm btw
greg

E. von Hoegh · Jun 25, 2013

If you don't have calipers, measure the circumference of the threads with a bit of thin wire or something else which will not stretch. Apply pi and you'll have a bit more accuracy than you'll get just eyeballing the diameter with a ruler.

P.S. "Obdurate" and "obturateur" come from different roots IIRC.

ntenny · Jun 26, 2013

I stand corrected---my very own 6.5x9 Avus has an Ibsor shutter, not a Compur as I thought. I couldn't get the lens elements off without more force than I wanted to apply, but from educated guessing about where the threads are, I think it's probably the standard dimensions as given on the French site: 29.5mm diameter, both front and rear. If it varies from that size it can't be by much.

There's a photo at http://www.flickr.com/photos/rebollo_fr/4826112985/ of a 6.5x9 Bergheil mounting the 20cm Tele-Dynar; it's in a rimset Compur shutter with speeds to 1/200, for what that's worth.

-NT

GregW · Jun 26, 2013

Thanks a bunch Nathan. I remeasured mine and get 29.5 for the front and 26 for the rear. Well, I wonder if the Bergheil bayonet mount reduces the rear opening? as in: Shutter, bayonet mount then rear element screws into that? Resulting in the size discrepancy.

edp · Jun 27, 2013

My 6x9 Bergheil has a f/3.5 lens, which pushes it up to a Compur 1. The f/4.5 gets a Compur 0.

The bayonet doesn't occlude the lens at all; it's fixed under the retaining ring.

GregW · Jun 27, 2013

Thank you, I believe I am looking for a compur 0 or equivalent. From studying the versions of this lens available on the popular auction site, I see one with a step ring on the rear element. It looks like I'm missing that ring.

edp · Jun 27, 2013

Here's a picture of mine for comparison with the picture in post #11: my shutter looks a size larger, and it's not very clear but it looks to me like the tele-dynar shutter goes to 250, like a Compur 0 does.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9295972@N02/3708832991/

I've been vaguely interested in these lenses for ages but never seen one at a reasonable price, so if you find a shutter it fits I'll be interested to see what it's like.

GregW · Jun 27, 2013

Very nice looking camera. I'm hoping without to much work to be able to make this work. I didn't pay nearly what they are offered for. It may take some time to get it all sorted out. i'll post some results when i do.

gandolfi · Jun 28, 2013

I have a working Tele-Dynar on my Bergheil 6.6x9... I'll find it and get back to you .. (great lens!!)

GregW · Jun 29, 2013

fantastic! Would love some specs on the mounting!

GregW · Jun 30, 2013

Problem solved!!! Went to a local camera show and took the lens along. I found a "Kodak Compur" that it fit into perfectly! Now just need to work out a lens board adapter which should be a breeze. I couldn't believe it there were only about 3 ? compur 0's in the whole place and one of them worked. It seems to be focusing fine from what I can tell on the ground glass.

What shutter am I looking for-Tele Dynar 20cm

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