What Should I Replace My Horrible Epson 4800 With??

[Fragomeni]

Hi all,

I need your help here. I have an Epson 4800 that I've had for about a year and a half. I HATE the thing. It gets persistent nozzle clogs no matter what I do which cause such a waste of ink in getting rid of them. I've read everything on the net about preventing such clogs and I've found no solution. I bought it used and part of me thinks something has been wrong with it all along even though there's never been any problem with prints. At this point, the thing has a moist sponge inside the paper tray to raise the humidity. This is supposed to help keep the nozzles from clogging in dry climates (I live in Phoenix). In addition to the sponge, the whole printer is kept wrapped in plastic to prevent the escape of moisture from the sponge. This has made a slight improvement to the frequency of the clogs. What seemed to work for a while along with the sponge and plastic was to simply print off a full color pallet maintenance print each morning which I do like clockwork. The print allows the printer to go through every color and doesn't waste anywhere near as much ink as running a nozzle check every day which is what the Epson rep I spoke to said to do. This appeared to be working for about a month. No clogs! You can imagine how happy I've been. Well today, for seemingly no reason (no drop in humidity and no skipping of the maintenance prints) the thing clogged as if it hadn't been used in a year. I'm talking a serious clog. I'm currently still trying to get it unclogged and I've already wasted probably half of my newly bought ink. On top of things the maintenance tank is almost full.

Anyway, I've had it with this thing. I'm going to replace it but need to know what I should go with. I've realized that I don't really need the size of the 4800 and I think I would be more then happy with the 3880 or whatever the current printer is when I buy it. I thought about the 4900 but the price is high and like I said, I don't think I need the size. I've found conflicting reports all over the internet regarding the 3880's predisposition to clogs and other problems. I've heard reports that some Epson printers are predisposed to a problem called "venetian blinds" as well. I asked the Epson rep about this and the guy had the gall to acknowledge that one of the printer models is especially prone to this but refused to tell me which one.

I need some guidance here. I'm trying to figure out if I should get another Epson or change brands. If I stay with Epson, which printer should I be looking at and should I look forward to the same never ending problems? If I change brands, is there a printer outside of the Epson line that will produce the quality of the Epson without the problems I've been experiencing? I'm at a loss here and I'm two seconds from pushing this thing out of the window in which case I'll need to purchase a replacement soon rather then later.

Thanks so much in advance for your help!!

 

[pschwart]

I can't make a recommendation because I don't know what your specific printing needs are: size? color? b&w? digital negatives? rolls? cut sheets? ... ? But I would advise buying new, that way you have some leverage with the dealer or manufacturer if you have problems, especially if you are using one of the higher-end products. Epson provides a different level of support for their Professional Imaging printers.
When my 3800 used up half its ink before delivering a good nozzle check out-of-the-box, Epson shipped me replacement ink with no argument. If you want to save some money, check out the Epson web site for refurbished products. I always buy these -- the shipping is free, and they get the same support as new units.

 

[P C Headland]

Why not consider another printer manufacturer, like Canon? The inkjet systems used by Canon and HP (both different) seem less prone to clogging than Epson.

If you want something similar to what you've currently got, then the Canon Pro9000 (dye) or Pro9500 (pigment) would be worth considering. With the 9500, there's no need to swap the blacks when going between glossy and matt paper.

HP don't seem to be doing anything in this "space" at the moment.

 

[Fragomeni]

I can't make a recommendation because I don't know what your specific printing needs are: size? color? b&w? digital negatives? rolls? cut sheets? ... ?

My needs vary but over all 17x20 is probably all I need but it would be nice to have the option to go larger (which is why I got the 4800). I vary rarely ever print anything in color so its rendering of B&W/ greyscale is much more important to me. I print digital paper negatives (not on transparency film) but I would like the option to print conventional digital negs (transparency) if I should choose to. No need for rolls as I prefer cut sheet. To understand my needs, I use the printer to print paper inter-negatives which I print in the darkroom. Also I use the printer to print inter-positives on high quality paper like Museo which I then use in the darkroom as part of a copy print process. My primary concern is the highest quality print rendering, everything else comes second. Hope that clarifies things.

Why not consider another printer manufacturer, like Canon? The inkjet systems used by Canon and HP (both different) seem less prone to clogging than Epson.

If you want something similar to what you've currently got, then the Canon Pro9000 (dye) or Pro9500 (pigment) would be worth considering. With the 9500, there's no need to swap the blacks when going between glossy and matt paper.

HP don't seem to be doing anything in this "space" at the moment.

If i could confirm that the output and rendering of a Canon or some other system would match or surpass the Epson systems I would have no problem looking at another brand. Perhaps I'm just the victim of good marketing but I've always felt that Epson is somewhat the standard. I'm an analog printer and I use my printer for very specific purposes relating to darkroom printing but all of the digital photogs/printers I know use Epson so it's all I see. I'll do some research into how the canon printers hold up against the Epsons. If anyone could offer insight it would be very much appreciated. Thanks!

 

[P C Headland]

I don't think you'd find any appreciable output difference between printers of a similar level, used by a skilled person, across the brands.

There are quite a few reviews of the Pro9000/9500, and they all seem positive (but they are generally all positive anyway....). A friend who has one is happy with his, and I believe he is an ex-Epson guy. Anyway, here's one I found.

They only real way to satisfy yourself is to actually print some tests. But that could be easier said than done.

Epson aren't the only game in town, although they do seem to have done a good job convincing people they are.

 

[Fragomeni]

Yea, I've the reviews. I've seen side by sides between Canon Pro9500MkII and the HP equiv. The Canan's blacks were lacking compared to the HP. I've also seen tests showing that HP doesn't have anything that comes near the blacks of Epson. I dont have any way of doing side by sides myself so I depend on extrapolating info from all of the reviews and tests that I've been able to find. I use my printer for specialized needs almost always in regard to producing either inter-negs or inter-positives which will then be printed using conventional darkroom and alt-process methods. I never print a final print from my printer and I never will. It is just a tool in my toolbox which I use to print analog and hybrid images. I want to get whatever renders the highest quality and most accurate image but at the same time I don't want to go overboard and get something that is more then I need. My other concern with Canon is the lack of support and profiles for the higher quality papers. Epson definitely seems to be the favorite among the paper manufactures. In the end I think I'll probably end up with a 3880 and I'm terrified that I'll have to deal with the same clogging issues.

 

[donbga]

I print digital paper negatives (not on transparency film) but I would like the option to print conventional digital negs (transparency) if I should choose to. No need for rolls as I prefer cut sheet. To understand my needs, I use the printer to print paper inter-negatives which I print in the darkroom. Also I use the printer to print inter-positives on high quality paper like Museo which I then use in the darkroom as part of a copy print process. My primary concern is the highest quality print rendering, everything else comes second. Hope that clarifies things.

The 4800 shares the same ink technology/DNA as the 3800 and by all measures should be a better printer than the 3800 as far as durability is concerned. Did you purchase the 4800 used?

I own a 3800, and have owned one for 4 years and I've never had problems with print head clogging (that a simple nozzle clean couldn't correct) as reported by others which leads me to believe that these clogging problems are most probably caused by environmental reasons such as low relative humidity and build up of paper dust in the printer.

My ambient humidity usually does not drop below about 35% except in the dead of the winter and then I humidify my studio (about 225 sq. ft.). I always use a dust cover and blow off paper sheets before printing so as little dust as possible gets pulled into the printer. Additionally I try to make at least 1 or 2 8x10 prints each week to keep the ink moving.

Are you using your paper negatives for silver gelatin printing?

 

[SWphoto]

I have an Epson 3880 for about a year, live in your area, and have never had a clog or any issues (unlike my earlier 2200, which caused me to give up printing at home . I'n not printing a lot, so it's not a matter of constant usage keeping things in order- it just works.

Art Intersection in Gilbert has a 9900, 4880 and 2880, will be making them available to the public in a few days (for a fee, of course)- why not try using them and see how they work, and whether that might be a solution, instead of having your own, buying replacement carts, etc?.

 

[Fragomeni]

The 4800 shares the same ink technology/DNA as the 3800 and by all measures should be a better printer than the 3800 as far as durability is concerned. Did you purchase the 4800 used?

Yes, bought it used.

I own a 3800, and have owned one for 4 years and I've never had problems with print head clogging (that a simple nozzle clean couldn't correct) as reported by others which leads me to believe that these clogging problems are most probably caused by environmental reasons such as low relative humidity and build up of paper dust in the printer.

My ambient humidity usually does not drop below about 35% except in the dead of the winter and then I humidify my studio (about 225 sq. ft.). I always use a dust cover and blow off paper sheets before printing so as little dust as possible gets pulled into the printer. Additionally I try to make at least 1 or 2 8x10 prints each week to keep the ink moving.

We're doing basically the same things. I keep a wet sponge in the paper tray to keep the internal humidity in the printer as high as I can. Here in Phoenix thats a constant battle. The little hygrometer I have needs new batteries so I can't say exactly what the humidity is but I know its a lot higher in the printer then it is outside of it. In addition to the sponge the whole printer is covered (relatively air tight) in plastic to keep the humidity in and the prevent dust accumulation. Lastly, the maintenance sheet I have, which allows the printer to go through all colors and shades of grey, is printed once a day every day on standard 8.5 x 11 paper. None of this has solved the clogging problem.

Are you using your paper negatives for silver gelatin printing?

Yes, I print my paper negatives in sliver gelatin as well as alt processes. Some papers actually seem to block UV while others do not so I have different papers that I use for silver and the various alt-processes. Finding a good paper with the right fiber structure for an image can be the most challenging part. I've actually found that some of the cheapest papers have the best and most uniform fiber arrangement. But lets not get off topic, message me if you'd like to know more

I have an Epson 3880 for about a year, live in your area, and have never had a clog or any issues (unlike my earlier 2200, which caused me to give up printing at home . I'n not printing a lot, so it's not a matter of constant usage keeping things in order- it just works.

This is really good to know. You are the second person in Phoenix who has said that. I'm wondering if the same holds true for the 3800 or if it has clogging problems out here like my 4800. I've been offered a freshly rebuilt 3800 at a great price but I haven't yet heard if it'll clog like the 4800 here in Phoenix.

Art Intersection in Gilbert has a 9900, 4880 and 2880, will be making them available to the public in a few days (for a fee, of course)- why not try using them and see how they work, and whether that might be a solution, instead of having your own, buying replacement carts, etc?.

They've done a great job with Art Intersection. I've been keeping up with it since it was just an idea. I was at the opening last week and was impressed with the darkroom and facilities. They also had a fantastic show hanging. However, the bottom line for me is that its too far away and going out there to print doesn't work with my workflow anyway. I need the printer at my fingertips so that I can go back and forth between it and the darkroom when I'm working on something.

 

[donbga]

Yes, bought it used.

I think that maybe the root of your problem.

There is a large document available for free that describes how to repair clogs for Epson printers. I'll see if I can locate it and send you a copy if you wish. I can't recall the individual's name that authored this paper but he has spent an enormous amount of time researching over the years and is quite respected in the ink jet printer community.

Yes, I print my paper negatives in sliver gelatin as well as alt processes. Some papers actually seem to block UV while others do not so I have different papers that I use for silver and the various alt-processes. Finding a good paper with the right fiber structure for an image can be the most challenging part. I've actually found that some of the cheapest papers have the best and most uniform fiber arrangement. But lets not get off topic, message me if you'd like to know more

I'm quite surprised that you use ink jet papers for alternative process papers as they are quite opaque to UV light, even vellums, usually the base has a UV log density above 4.0 . Slow processes like cyanotype take forever to print unless of course you are oiling or waxing the paper somehow to make the paper translucent. I'm not sure why you wouldn't prefer a transparency substrate like most people use. Perhaps for aesthetic effect from the paper fiber?

For silver gelatin printing, Costco Kirkland RC glossy inkjet paper (same as Ilford RC glossy only much less expensive) works very well for silver gelatin printing and is reasonably priced at about $20 for 150 sheets of 8.5x11. Larger sizes up to 13x19 are available online. Other inexpensive glossy brands can be used as well as long as they aren't stamped on the verso with the manufacturers "water mark."

 

[Fragomeni]

I'm quite surprised that you use ink jet papers for alternative process papers as they are quite opaque to UV light, even vellums, usually the base has a UV log density above 4.0 . Slow processes like cyanotype take forever to print unless of course you are oiling or waxing the paper somehow to make the paper translucent. I'm not sure why you wouldn't prefer a transparency substrate like most people use. Perhaps for aesthetic effect from the paper fiber?

I've done a lot with paper negatives and began working with hybrid paper negatives not too long ago and have been very pleased with the prints that they are capable of producing. Some papers are more inclined to block UV then others but there are many which are easy to print alt-process with. The biggest hurdle is finding a paper with the right fiber structure and arrangement for a print. I have paper that I use for silver and other papers for alt-process. The structure and arrangement of paper fiber can lend itself to a print if used correctly. I don't oil my paper negatives. I tried it in the past but was unhappy with the results and I'm bothered by the fact that they will pretty much permanently secrete oil. I've had a few people recommend sunflower oil and other "drying oils" but I haven't tried them yet because I've been happy with what I'm producing with dry paper negs. I gravitated to paper negatives via inkjet because of aesthetic reasons. I do plan on investigating transparency substrates but they all seem so expensive and problematic for one reason or another.

I'll check out the Costco Kirkland RC glossy inkjet paper. I haven't tried that one yet!

 

[Fragomeni]

I think that maybe the root of your problem.

There is a large document available for free that describes how to repair clogs for Epson printers. I'll see if I can locate it and send you a copy if you wish. I can't recall the individual's name that authored this paper but he has spent an enormous amount of time researching over the years and is quite respected in the ink jet printer community.

Yea, thats my feeling too. Although, I have talked to the Epson repair people here in Phoenix and it just seems that the 4800 flat out doesn't do anything but clog here. Apparently major improvements were made with the release of the 3800 which solve nozzle logs for most users. Apparently Epson felt that these changes were satisfactory and didn't do much else to improve it in the 3880 (at least thats what I'm finding, someone correct me if I'm wrong).
I may have seen it but if you find the document, please let me know. Thanks!