What printer and ink set for enlarged digital negatives?

Robert Ley · Nov 7, 2014

I am presently using Fuji X-ray copy film in my darkroom to make enlarged negatives for doing gum prints. I can see running out of my stock of film and not being able to obtain it in the future. With this in mind I would like to get a used inkjet printer and an ink set that will not block UV that I will be able to make enlarged digital negatives to do gum printing and other alternative processes.
I know that most use an Epson printer and that is what I would assume I would get. At this time if I could get a 14x17 negative that would be great. I could handle a a larger negative in that my contact printing frame and UV light source will handle 16x20.
What ink sets are best? I have heard that John Cone's piezography insets are pretty good for making negatives.
Is there a good book or publication that can guide me through this procedure?
I am thinking that this will be a winter project.
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gmikol · Nov 7, 2014

14x17 means you need 17" wide capable printer.

I can't comment on Cone or other 3rd-party inksets, my comments below are based on Epson printers using the OEM inks.

If you can live with 13" wide negatives, the you have more options, IMO. User pschwartz is having good results with an R1800 (which you could get used). But the inks (and head?) changed for the 1900 and 2000, and they're not so good. The very small drop size makes up for the single-black ink in the R1800. But if you get comfortable using a tool like QTR (QuadTone RIP) you can use some of the other inks in that ink set that have less UV density as "light gray" inks. The Epson 2400 / 2880 / 3000 use the Ultrachrome K3 inkset variants. So 3 black/light gray inks, and all supported by QTR. I would suspect that the new P600 (replacement for the 3000) will also be supported, but it will have to hit the market first, before the author can do any testing.

If you have to go up to a 17" printer, then you could use a 3800/3880 or 4880/4900. Roll capability in the 4xxx series. Smaller cut-sheet capability in the 38xx series. Do you plan on making any regular color/b&w inkjet prints, or is this printer going to be dedicated to negatives?

Lastly, you say:

"ink set that will not block UV"

I think you stated that wrong. What you need is an inkset that blocks UV very efficiently. The black (or other color) ink on a digital negative acts the same way as the silver in a traditional negative, it's what blocks the light.

I learned a lot about this from the references on Roy Harrington's QTR site, as well as the Epson Printer and Digital B&W Yahoo groups. And there are a number of other folks on this board who almost certainly know more about this than I do.

Best of luck.

--G

Robert Ley · Nov 10, 2014

Thanks G for your reply.

Of course you are right about the inkset and UV blocking. I have over 40 years experience in traditional analog photography, but am a relative novice in the digital world.

I think I will have to get a good book on this subject of enlarged digital negatives. Can you recommend one?

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Alan Klein · Nov 10, 2014

gmikol said:
14x17 means you need 17" wide capable printer.
--G

Can't you rotate the image and print with a 14", printer assuming they are available?

gmikol · Nov 11, 2014

Alan Klein said:
Can't you rotate the image and print with a 14", printer assuming they are available?

In principle, yes, but both Epson and Canon offer 13" printers, and 17" printers. So a 14x17 negative needs a 17" printer.

@Robert Ley...I can't recommend a book from personal experience, as pretty much everything I've learned was what I could find on the 'net and figured out on my own. I could answer specific questions if you had them. For a comprehensive work, Ron Reeder has a book that's well-regarded, from what I understand.

--G

RalphLambrecht · Nov 13, 2014

Robert Ley said:
I am presently using Fuji X-ray copy film in my darkroom to make enlarged negatives for doing gum prints. I can see running out of my stock of film and not being able to obtain it in the future. With this in mind I would like to get a used inkjet printer and an ink set that will not block UV that I will be able to make enlarged digital negatives to do gum printing and other alternative processes.
I know that most use an Epson printer and that is what I would assume I would get. At this time if I could get a 14x17 negative that would be great. I could handle a a larger negative in that my contact printing frame and UV light source will handle 16x20.
What ink sets are best? I have heard that John Cone's piezography insets are pretty good for making negatives.
Is there a good book or publication that can guide me through this procedure?
I am thinking that this will be a winter project.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I'm in a similar position and hope to get what I want from an Epson 3880 withits standard K3 ink set on Pictorico film.Has any one used this combination with success?

rst · Nov 14, 2014

ralphlambrecht said:
I'm in a similar position and hope to get what I want from an Epson 3880 withits standard K3 ink set on Pictorico film.Has any one used this combination with success?

I use an Epson R3000 which (as far as I know) has the same inks the 3880 has. I print digital negatives for Kallitype on Pictorico OHP and that works very well.

Cheers
Ruediger

RalphLambrecht · Nov 17, 2014

Robert Ley said:
I am presently using Fuji X-ray copy film in my darkroom to make enlarged negatives for doing gum prints. I can see running out of my stock of film and not being able to obtain it in the future. With this in mind I would like to get a used inkjet printer and an ink set that will not block UV that I will be able to make enlarged digital negatives to do gum printing and other alternative processes.
I know that most use an Epson printer and that is what I would assume I would get. At this time if I could get a 14x17 negative that would be great. I could handle a a larger negative in that my contact printing frame and UV light source will handle 16x20.
What ink sets are best? I have heard that John Cone's piezography insets are pretty good for making negatives.
Is there a good book or publication that can guide me through this procedure?
I am thinking that this will be a winter project.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I plan to try to make digital negatives with an Epson 3880 and it's standard K3 inks on Pictorico OHP film.I'll report how well it worked.

Papa Tango · Oct 30, 2015

gmikol said:
In principle, yes, but both Epson and Canon offer 13" printers, and 17" printers. So a 14x17 negative needs a 17" printer.

--G

Actually, the Canon Pixma 1 and 10 printers will handle 14", if sent through the rear manual feed. I cannot attest to the OEM ink performance for UV contact printing though. My ink choice in the PP-10 is Precision Color. You might drop Michael a email and ask him about this...

RalphLambrecht · Oct 31, 2015

ralphlambrecht said:
I'm in a similar position and hope to get what I want from an Epson 3880 withits standard K3 ink set on Pictorico film.Has any one used this combination with success?

I did an 8x10 trial with that combination but didn't get sufficient Dmax

Robert Ley · Jan 9, 2016

Since this was originally my thread I thought I would give an update.
I settled on an Epson r2400 printer with Jon Cones piezography digital negative inkset. I picked up a little used 2400 on fleebay and after cleaning the heads I have been getting some great results for cyanotypes and Van Dyke Brown prints. I am using QTR with Jon's profiles and it is really working quite well.
I have a separate issue with the printer and will be starting a new thread on that.

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RalphLambrecht · Jan 11, 2016

rst said:
I use an Epson R3000 which (as far as I know) has the same inks the 3880 has. I print digital negatives for Kallitype on Pictorico OHP and that works very well.

Cheers
Ruediger

I tried it and agree but not as halftone-negatives, which is what I was used to;more experiments...

Walker Blackwell · Apr 7, 2016

Hey all. This is Walker Blackwell (R&D guy of Piezography inks). We are in the last few weeks of inventing a profiler/curve/K6 inkset for digital negatives. We're starting with Palladium/Oxalate-dev but will gradually expand to silver/cyano/gravure/etc.

cheers all,
Walker

pschwart · Apr 7, 2016

walkerblackwell said:
Hey all. This is Walker Blackwell (R&D guy of Piezography inks). We are in the last few weeks of inventing a profiler/curve/K6 inkset for digital negatives. We're starting with Palladium/Oxalate-dev but will gradually expand to silver/cyano/gravure/etc.

cheers all,
Walker

What printers will be supported?

SMBooth · Jul 20, 2016

Don't you just love it when they come in, make a grand statement then never come back to anwser any questions.

Walker Blackwell · Aug 29, 2022

SMBooth said:
Don't you just love it when they come in, make a grand statement then never come back to anwser any questions.

It's been running 6 years now and we have about a thousand customers running the PiezoDN workflow . . . all printers that support Piezography are also supported by the PiezoDN workflow. https://shop.inkjetmall.com/Epson

At the time of your question we simply did not know what printers we would be supporting . . . and also I never saw the reply. Never got an email, and this forum moved locations on the internet . . .

-Walker

sasah zib · Mar 7, 2023

this too is ancient -- inkjet chemists usually have at least one UV resistant ink. HP as far back as last decade talked about it being useful for such processes as Plat.

nmp · Mar 7, 2023

sasah zib said:
this too is ancient -- inkjet chemists usually have at least one UV resistant ink. HP as far back as last decade talked about it being useful for such processes as Plat.
View attachment 331775

It's not that they designed an UV opaque ink particularly for this application, as far as I know. It so turned out that their green (their larger printers had a green cartridge) had the highest UV absorbance, better than black that was available at the time. (I had the smaller B9180 printer using the same set of Vivera inks, except the green cartridge, but still gave the best UV opacity in the green patches.) The pro printers had an added advantage that they had built-in spectro-photometers so one could easily find the right correction curve for a given process within the printer itself. HP tried to commercialize this capability for a while - I think out of their Spanish lab. Perhaps too much of a niche for them to pursue seriously.

In any case, none of the other printer makers have gone out of their way to maximize UV opacity to any degree. That's why there is a lucrative off-OEM business marketing UV inks primarily catering to silkscreen-making that requires even greater UV densities than alternative process negatives.

:Niranjan

jeffreyg · Mar 7, 2023

I’ve been making negatives for platinum/palladium prints with an Epson 3880 and the Epson Inks for quite some time with excellent results. If so inclined you can tint to match pyro or add a yellow /orange tint for additional uv blocking. Pictorico makes two qualities use the better one.

What printer and ink set for enlarged digital negatives?

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