What plans do you have for your negs when you die?

osprey48 · Mar 30, 2008

I don't know which forum to post this, so I'm doing it here.

This isn't a joyful subject, but what do you want to happen to your negatives after your death? I really couldn't care less about my material posessions once I'm no longer around to enjoy them, but I hate the thought of my lifetime's images just being thrown in the bin. I suppose an averge photographer could have 50-60+ years of history archive in their neg files, so I was wondering if there was an organisation to which they could be donated, so at least they are available to be seen for future generations. I don't have any children to pass them down to, but even if I did there's no guarantee they wouldn't end up in the bottom of a skip.
I'm not famous, or particularly skilled or anything, but a lot of my photos are of places which have either changed significantly, or have even disappeared completely, such as Moscow in the Brezhnev era, east berlin before the fall of the wall, and even Plymouth city centre!
Any ideas?

markbb · Mar 30, 2008

are they are labelled?

BWGirl · Mar 30, 2008

Wow, that's a really interesting thought! I'd imagine that if you were a famous/semi-famous photog, you would really want to make sure something was done to preserve and even to have these in the hands of people who could print & sell for the benefit of your family.
Thanks for giving us something to think about!

Graham.b · Mar 30, 2008

Hello, this has cropped up many times in , i would like to think some one would keep them and may be print them for the the times of the past.
When you think of all this digital element about at the moment. No storage only back up, which in time can not be read. When you see on the news, some persons photos, negs being found in a box. The local Museum at times ask for photos of the past, what will they do in the future with no hard copy.

In the times we live at the moment, no thinks of how important it is until it is not there anymore, and then it is only a memory which gets fainter, but not with the negs.

Graham

keithwms · Mar 30, 2008

What an interestingly morose subject!

Well, I would hope that by the time I pass, the 1 foot stack of negatives and chromes will have been sorted into piles.

Also, by the time I go, people will no longer know what the hell to do with the negatives, so I guess I'd better leave some printing instructions in my will. They will still know very well what to do with the chromes, though.

My cameras will all be given to some museum, I suppose. Except, a mamiya 6 and 50mm lens will be there in my casket, firmly gripped in my cold, dead hands. All I ask is that they ship me off with a few rolls of fp4+ and velvia 100. I think there will be some interesting shots to take.

Les McLean · Mar 30, 2008

The problem with asking colleges, museums, county record offices or any organisation to have and use photographers negatives after they have passed away is the legal aspect. Many years ago I was part of a group of photographers who approached colleges that we had all taught in and museums and national art galleries where most of us had exhibited, to take control of our negatives to enable students of photography to learn from them when printing when we died . Every organisation we asked refused on the grounds that they could have been faced with legal problems from our families should the resultant prints made were sold. We tried to persuade them that this would not happen but they would not shift on the issue.
In the end we abandoned the idea but as educators we were all very disappointed by the short sighted attitude of the organisations we approached.

Consequently when my time comes the negatives all come with me in the coffin along with a supply of FP4, Ilford Warmtone fibre paper and my old Minolta Autocord which was my first camera, just in the hope that I may make some photographs either on the journey or when I reach the final destination.

jovo · Mar 30, 2008

Vis a vis Les's point, it would be interesting to find out what arrangements Adams made with the University of Arizona (I think it is?) to keep his negatives and allow them to be studied and, perhaps printed as well (I'm not certain about that either.) The Adams' trust that oversees the production of his calendars and posters, and his family continue to be able to derive a probably substantial income from reproductions to this day.

Any trust and estate attorneys out there who know about this?

MurrayMinchin · Mar 30, 2008

Alan Ross, through the Ansel Adams Gallery, still prints "special edition prints" from some of Ansel's negatives. A handmade gelatin silver print, dry mounted and overmatted comes to a whopping $225.00 bucks. (Never bought one myself). I bet the sale of those help the family out - it helps to be really famous before you die though...

http://www.anseladams.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=9

I'm thinking something like this could be done, but on a much smaller scale, in concert with a really well established printing lab or with a child who's interested in learning Mom or Dad's printing techniques.

Murray

removed account4 · Mar 30, 2008

i am not sure about the uk, but in some towns an cities in the usa
public libraries usually have a "local history room" where people from the community
are able to donate things ... and there is history ( books, maps, &C ) regarding the area.
as long as the negatives / prints are inventoried / catalogued in some sort of way
i am sure the local library would love the film and prints.

good luck!

john

haris · Mar 30, 2008

Les McLean said:
In the end we abandoned the idea but as educators we were all very disappointed by the short sighted attitude of the organisations we approached.

I am afraid it is not short sighted attitude of organisations you approached. We simply live in over organized sociaties where tendancies are that every aspect of life must be institutionally organized. Protection of authors and/or intellectual rigths is just one of those acpects of life.

There is simple solution, let's force parliaments in our (in all) countries to erase laws regarding author and intellectual rights and problem will be solved

Les McLean · Mar 30, 2008

jovo said:
Vis a vis Les's point, it would be interesting to find out what arrangements Adams made with the University of Arizona (I think it is?) to keep his negatives and allow them to be studied and, perhaps printed as well (I'm not certain about that either.) The Adams' trust that oversees the production of his calendars and posters, and his family continue to be able to derive a probably substantial income from reproductions to this day.

Any trust and estate attorneys out there who know about this?

With regard to the Adams negatives in Arizona, I know of one APUG subscriber who spent several months or more trying to get access to the negatives for the purpose that Ansel intended, that is, for students to make prints and learn from doing so. When he eventually succeded in obtaining a negative (it was a copy) he made the print but had to leave it in the university which I think is quite logical and fair. He is a quite determined person which was just as well for the university put all manner of obsticles in his way before they finally relented.

MikeSeb · Mar 30, 2008

Les's description of the obstacles placed in the way of the APUG-er who wanted to print an Adams negative is illustrative of the biggest problem anyone will have in setting up a trust: ensuring that future trustees abide by your instructions!

That said, I'd think it would be relatively simple to set up a trust, or perhaps make the work part of one's family trust (I'm not a lawyer here, just a guy with too little estate to have worried about such things!), and give that entity control of the use of the work. Of course, seventy years after the photographer's death, if I understand copyright law correctly, the work reverts to the public domain anyway.

These are problems I HOPE one day to have; and anyway, I've solved the problem by purchasing immortality from a California-based online broker of same....

bill schwab · Mar 30, 2008

MikeSeb said:
Of course, seventy years after the photographer's death, if I understand copyright law correctly, the work reverts to the public domain anyway.

There is provision in the copyright law for the surviving family to extend the copyright for another 67 years as long as the application is made within 1 year of the author's death.

For all of the nuts and bolts of US Copyright Law, see:

http://www.copyright.gov/

RobC · Mar 30, 2008

Les McLean said:
Consequently when my time comes the negatives all come with me in the coffin along with a supply of FP4, Ilford Warmtone fibre paper and my old Minolta Autocord which was my first camera, just in the hope that I may make some photographs either on the journey or when I reach the final destination.

But when you turn your toes up, there's no knowing if they'll torch you cos they've run out of cemetary space. And you'll need environmental planning permission to bury that kind of stuff

PhotoJim · Mar 30, 2008

I'm hoping there will be somebody in my family that enjoys photography or would care enough about it that they would respect my wishes that my negatives (and slides too) be carried forward, stored correctly, but most importantly, used.

Frankly, I would be honoured to receive a lifetime of negatives from a family member.

I plan to discuss this with my family and make sure they realize the importance I attach to my photographic record.

Even if nobody in the family cares at the moment, as long as they respect my wishes that the images be kept, I think I will be fine. Eventually somebody will care, and will be glad to have them.

Nicole · Mar 30, 2008

Destroy the negatives! All the important prints will already be made and that's all that's needed to be left over.

hec · Mar 30, 2008

horrified of destroying my negatives

Nicole said:
Destroy the negatives! All the important prints will already be made and that's all that's needed to be left over.

although I am horrified of destroying my negatives (even the bad ones) I can see your point, you will have prints of the "keepers" that best represent your vision. It is probably better to finish (print) our vision shortly after the negative was exposed. I quoting Fred Picker's "the fine print":

"at the time an exposure is made, the photographer experiences the greatest intimacy with that particular subject. At no later time will he be more in tune with the image that moved him to photograph; for that reason I find that there is no better time to design the final print."

I understand this as finishing my vision today, but not months after making and exposure. Even though I do not see myself digging out old negatives very often, I like to keep that option available (they could be at least of historical interest in the future, even if not of photographic accomplishment).

Colin Corneau · Mar 30, 2008

Since I want to be cremated after I pass on, being buried with my gear is not a realistic option.

This is something I've thought of occasionally; hopefully, we all make provisions in our will -- while we're still alive and able to do this ahead of time.

david b · Mar 30, 2008

I had a great friend die last September. He was 27 years old. He shot digitally. He left behind 5 huge hard drives filled with work.

His family had no idea the HD's existed until I gave to them. Now, they have no idea what to do, but they want to do something.

Sam died unexpectedly and along with a million other questions, we are left wondering what to do with his work.

At a minimum, leave some sort of clue as what you want done with the work. If you want to burn it like Brett Weston did, then do so. But please put something in writing NOW.

tim rudman · Mar 30, 2008

"What plans do you have for your negs when you die? "

Do you know something I don't?

osprey48 · Mar 30, 2008

Thanks for the very good points. I'd never considered the legal complications before. Maybe if the negs were left in a will, or a kind of legal document could be drawn up with a solicitor by which you could sign all rights to the organisation, thus removing the threat of litigation. Its a thought. Its clear that this subject has not been investigated much, perhaps due to the morbid taboo of discussing our own demise.
I have read somewhere that there are some photographers who search out other people's discarded negs in junk shops etc and print them.'Photography trouve' I think its known as, or 'found photography'.If I start to feel a bit unwell, I'll offer them all on this forum!

sdivot · Mar 30, 2008

Funny this subject comes up now. I recently was put on double lung transplant list, and here I sit in the hospital. I have cystic fibrosis, so I knew this kind of thing could happen. But this came upon me suddenly after a bad flu bug turned into pneumonia and casued enough lung damage to put me over the edge.
I hope to get out of the hospital long enough to tie up a few loose ends, and of course I hope to have the transplant and recover and continue to photograph for years to come.
If things don't go well, however, who's going to give a damn about my negatives and gear? Nobody.
I'm not a famous photographer. In fact, I consider myself someone who has not yet really found a "voice". Can you say "sense of urgency"?
My family loves and supports me, but they don't have any interest (or understanding for that matter) in my art.
My stuff will be packed up and stored away and nothing will ever be done with it. Out of respect it will never be thrown away, but it will never again see the light of day either.
Very depressing....
Steve
scdowellphoto.com

noseoil · Mar 30, 2008

I guess I'll just have to include my negatives into the will. Since I plan on being cremated and then put into a Pinata, I guess there should be enough room for the film. Best, tim

PhotoJim · Mar 30, 2008

Good luck to you Steve. I'm crossing my fingers for your transplant to go through.

osprey48 · Mar 31, 2008

Very interesting comments by everybody. I wouldn't burn my negs though. That's like shooting digital and immediately deleting the ones which don't instantly grab you. I'm about to hold an exhibition in a cafe, and in the process of searching my negs for my best shots, have discovered many old negs which at the time didn't seem to warrant even a straight print, but now suddenly look very promising indeed. As you become more experienced and artistically aware, you can appreciate your pictures in different ways than you could 10-20 years ago. Its quite satisfying to find that you had a photographic talent from quite an early age without realising it. Also, the relevance of subject matter can change over the years too. We have a few hundred black and white 6x6 slides taken by, I think, my great-grandfather around the late 1800s and early 1900s, which is probably what prompted me to ask the original question of this post. A lot of them are of a holiday in Norway, and look quite dull to be honest, but there are some of a glacier. I googled the name into google images, and found more recent pictures of the same glacier, and it had retreated a huge amount since this old picture had been taken. Global warming hadn't been invented then!So its possible that my 'boring' photos could be of interest in the future for reasons impossible to imagine today.

What plans do you have for your negs when you die?

osprey48

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BWGirl

Graham.b

keithwms

Les McLean

jovo

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Nicole

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osprey48

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noseoil

PhotoJim

osprey48

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