What mirrorless camera to get?

Duceman · Sep 13, 2023

Over the last several years, I've been shooting almost exclusively film cameras. My Canon 5D and 5D Mkii have been sitting in the camera bags, not doing much. Friend of mine got into the new line of Canon mirrorless R-series cameras, but with that came a whole other line of lenses. Wasn't all that interested in picking up another line of Canon glass, so I never got all that interested in them (though I understand that my old EF mounts can be used with the R cameras via an adapter).

Lately, though, I've been following a few photographers on FB and YouTube that have piqued my interest again in possibly getting a mirrorless camera. Many of these photographers are using vintage manual lenses, and I'm quite impressed with the results. On top of that, I've got more vintage glass that I can deal with.

Question is, though... what camera? I'll be honest... I haven't kept much notice of the newer digital cameras since buying my 5D Mkii nearly a decade ago. With one exception... I did pick up a Lumix G100, but that was mostly for creating vlblogs.

Anyway... one of the cameras that has caught my eye is the Fujifilm XT5. It is compact, and appears to have controls that are very similar to a film camera (e.g., ISO, shutter speed, exposure compensation). See below image.

But one of the things that has me concerned is the APS-C sensor... not because I don't believe it can produce amazing images, but instead because of the crop factor. My first DSLR camera was a Canon 20D, and I remember not liking the crop factor all that much, and was glad to upgrade to the 5D full-frame sensor--the lenses then matched what I saw through my EOS-3 film body. But maybe I'm overthinking it.

Is there some other brand/model I should be looking at?

Paul Howell · Sep 13, 2023

best buy is the Sony A7, older models are going for under $500, the later versions for under a grand. The Sony A to E adaptor allows for AF, A mount lens are cheap. That said there are a slew of adaptors for MF lens. I have a very old Sony A3000 that I bought to use with my MF Miranda and M42 lens, works, just got tired of not having AF, have not used in 4 or 5 years.

xkaes · Sep 13, 2023

I was kinda, sorta in your place. I've got a lot of "old" Minolta glass. I went with Sony digital, but I could have gone with lots of other digital brands. You can get your old Canon lenses to work with a LOT of different brands of digital cameras -- Canon or others. Lots of others do the same things, but you will need an adapter -- and there are lots to choose from. That applies to Canon adapters, and adapters for other brands of cameras. Some adapters give you no connectivity at all, and others give you more (and cost more).

#1: Since all of your lenses are manual focus, you won't have auto-focus, but lots of cameras have focus-confirmation in the viewfinder (An LED lights up, for example). If Auto-focus is important to you, sell your old gear.

#2: You'll need to research what digitals are out there with the features that you want -- and what adapters are available for your lenses, and what features these adapters offer, if any. That will take a lot of time to get it right.

#3: I'd go with a full-frame sensor instead of an APS, but APS cameras CAN BE smaller and lighter and less expensive.

#4: If you buy a digital and an adapter, and decide it's not for you -- or you find something better -- you can always sell it.

Cholentpot · Sep 13, 2023

I've been using manual lenses on my EOS DSLRs for years.

I will eventually get some sort of mirrorless to chuck in my gig bag so I can use all my vintage lenses on something with focus conformation. I'm not quite there yet.

xkaes · Sep 13, 2023

Paul Howell said:
That said there are a slew of adaptors for MF lens. I have a very old Sony A3000 that I bought to use with my MF Miranda and M42 lens, works, just got tired of not having AF, have not used in 4 or 5 years.

Using manual-focus lenses on AF cameras isn't for everyone. The biggest drawback is that AF cameras just have matte focusing screens -- no manual-focusing aids (microprism, split rangefinder), although many have a focus-confirmation LED.

xkaes · Sep 13, 2023

Cholentpot said:
I've been using manual lenses on my EOS DSLRs for years.

You need an adapter for that, right?

Sirius Glass · Sep 13, 2023

I have no interest in mirrorless cameras, neither Nikon nor Hasselblad.

Paul Howell · Sep 13, 2023

xkaes said:
Using manual-focus lenses on AF cameras isn't for everyone. The biggest drawback is that AF cameras just have matte focusing screens -- no manual-focusing aids (microprism, split rangefinder), although many have a focus-confirmation LED.

Not only focusing, which is time consuming, but I spend more time fixing chromatic abrasions and fringing than I do with AF lens, even my older 5 pin Minolta AF have fewer issues than either my M42 or Miranda lens.

4season · Sep 13, 2023

Is using legacy lenses at their native coverage an important part of your plans? If not, then even M43 could be a viable option.

Sony, Canon, and Panasonic are the least "retro" camera companies, and I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them to offer a modern camera which resembles a film camera from the 1970s, except in the broadest sense.

If I had to buy a new camera now, I think it'd be a tough choice between two Sony models: A7R5 and A7CR (currently have A7R4 and Olympus Pen-F).

If forced to switch from M43 and Sony E-mount, I figure I could make pretty much anything else work just fine. Personal preference would be smaller/lighter, with resolution-quadrupling pixel-shift feature.

xkaes · Sep 13, 2023

Paul Howell said:
Not only focusing, which is time consuming, but I spend more time fixing chromatic abrasions and fringing than I do with AF lens, even my older 5 pin Minolta AF have fewer issues than either my M42 or Miranda lens.

That's surprising because Minolta's Maxxum five-pin lenses were not made for digital cameras.

But I find that my digital-age lenses have as much CA as my older Rokkors -- mostly longer lenses.

Cholentpot · Sep 13, 2023

xkaes said:
You need an adapter for that, right?

Yes. I've found that M42 and Nikon lenses tend to work pretty well.

Dustin McAmera · Sep 13, 2023

I never owned a DSLR. I jumped from using only film to an EOS M50. That's an APS-C camera. I got it right at the start of the pandemic. Canon made next to no lenses for the EOS M mount; they expected that people would adapt their EF lenses.

Lovers of gear will think me a cheapskate. The kit I take out is normally the 22mm f/2 (like a 35mm on full-frame; one of the very few lenses Canon did make specifically for the EOS M mount), a 35mm f/1.2 7Artisans lens (manual-focus) and an EF 50mm f/1.8 as my short tele. I don't use much longer lenses a lot; I have adapted a 135mm (a Jupiter 11) and even an FD 500mm f/8 reflex, just for fun.

I don't really miss AF on the 35mm 7Artisans lens. If you're having trouble, you can enlarge the display on either the rear screen or the EVF, and you can even switch on focus peaking. I have tried that, and it's good, but I'm too stupid for it. I caught myself taking the 'weight' of the focus-peaking pattern into consideration in my composition.

That lens is currently priced at 129 uk pounds, and I haven't noticed it being cheap-and-nasty yet. Until I got that I was trying a Kiron 28mm f/2 as a standard. I got a little kit zoom with the camera, but I like to use wide apertures. I used the Kiron to convince myself that I would be happy with manual focus on my standard lens.

The 50mm is a nice short tele for the street, and must be about the cheapest lens that Canon will sell you.

My M50 has been discontinued for some time, and even the Mark II has gone the same way. I understand that the Mark II will focus and meter in two stops lower light than my camera. For reasons like that, I wouldn't buy a second-hand or just-discontinued digital camera.

With the camera, the lenses I got new with it, adapters and sundries I don't think I spent 2000 pounds. As I said, I'm a bit of a cheapskate, but I know I got good value. I've had a blast with this thing. If I were buying now, I don't know what camera I would get; maybe the EOS R6 MkII (quite a bit more money, even before you start thinking about lenses). I'm spared that decision because I'm still having fun with this one, and anyway I don't have any money now.

Chan Tran · Sep 13, 2023

The XT5 is a triple A camera. It has an A on the shutter speed dial, an A on the ISO dial and I believe the lens also has an A on it.

Duceman · Sep 13, 2023

4season said:
Is using legacy lenses at their native coverage an important part of your plans? If not, then even M43 could be a viable option.

Yes... I mentioned that I'm trying to avoid crop factor. And M43 is what, 2x? A little too much. BTW, my Lumix G100 is M43.

4season said:
If I had to buy a new camera now, I think it'd be a tough choice between two Sony models: A7R5 and A7CR (currently have A7R4 and Olympus Pen-F).

That Sony A7CR is just the body-type I'm looking for... but with a ~$3k body-only price tag.... I understand I didn’t put a price range in my original post, but that may be a bit too much. I’ll still primarily be shooting film, but would like a nice digital option to throw into the bag as well.

Duceman · Sep 13, 2023

xkaes said:
#1: Since all of your lenses are manual focus, you won't have auto-focus, but lots of cameras have focus-confirmation in the viewfinder (An LED lights up, for example).

This is the feature that really got me interested in this idea.

xkaes said:
#2: You'll need to research what digitals are out there with the features that you want -- and what adapters are available for your lenses, and what features these adapters offer, if any. That will take a lot of time to get it right.

Fotodiox has a wide range of adapters. I’ll primarily be looking at /SR (Minolta), FD or C/Y to what ever mount of the mirror less camera I go with.

xkaes said:
#3: I'd go with a full-frame sensor instead of an APS, but APS cameras CAN BE smaller and lighter and less expensive.

That is the heart of my decision. Would really like to go full-frame, but also want to stay compact.

Paul Howell · Sep 13, 2023

xkaes said:
That's surprising because Minolta's Maxxum five-pin lenses were not made for digital cameras.

But I find that my digital-age lenses have as much CA as my older Rokkors -- mostly longer lenses.

Duceman said:
This is the feature that really got me interested in this idea.

Fotodiox has a wide range of adapters. I’ll primarily be looking at /SR (Minolta), FD or C/Y to what ever mount of the mirror less camera I go with.

That is the heart of my decision. Would really like to go full-frame, but also want to stay compact.

You think you will be ok with used, a Sony A7r, full frame, mirrorless, around $500.

Duceman · Sep 13, 2023

Paul Howell said:
You think you will be ok with used, a Sony A7r, full frame, mirrorless, around $500.

Haven’t ruled that out.

xkaes · Sep 13, 2023

The full-frame mirrorless cameras are relatively new -- when compared to the full-frame NON-mirrorless models -- so they will tend to be more expensive, but that will depend on the features that you want in the camera, like video, GPS, remote computer control, and other REALLY CRAZY stuff.

4season · Sep 13, 2023

Duceman said:
That Sony A7CR is just the body-type I'm looking for... but with a ~$3k body-only price tag....

Are your EF-mount lenses worth the $400+ investment for a premium "smart" adapter, such as Metabones? I don't know about now, but when I bought my sub-$100 adapter a few years ago, I got usable, but not blazingly fast performance. But as my only EF-mount lens is the (very good) 40/2.8, the cheaper adapter seemed like a fair compromise for me at the time (before Sony brought out their own 40 mm lens!)

4season · Sep 13, 2023

Paul Howell said:
You think you will be ok with used, a Sony A7r, full frame, mirrorless, around $500.

Earlier this year, my neighborhood dealer had a decent A7R for <300 USD. Granted it's kinda slow and kinda noisy compared to the newer models, but 32 megapixels and no optical low pass filter for under $300?! It took a little willpower to walk away from that deal!

Duceman · Sep 13, 2023

4season said:
Are your EF-mount lenses worth the $400+ investment for a premium "smart" adapter, such as Metabones?

Most likely won’t be using any EF mount lenses. As mentioned earlier, am looking to use manual focus SR, FD or C/Y mount lenses.

xkaes · Sep 13, 2023

Duceman said:
Most likely won’t be using any EF mount lenses. As mentioned earlier, am looking to use manual focus SR, FD or C/Y mount lenses.

My guess is that there are a lot of full-frame mirrorless cameras for you to choose from that have an appropriate adapter and are reasonably priced -- because they don't have features you don't need, like making coffee for you in the morning. Unfortunately, they may not be listed on B&H, for example, because they may not be the "latest and greatest".

My digital cameras are perfect for me, but they are considered "ancient" because they were made in the last decade.

Duceman · Sep 13, 2023

xkaes said:
My guess is that there are a lot of full-frame mirrorless cameras for you to choose from that have an appropriate adapter and are reasonably priced -- because they don't have features you don't need, like making coffee for you in the morning. Unfortunately, they may not be listed on B&H, for example, because they may not be the "latest and greatest".

My digital cameras are perfect for me, but they are considered "ancient" because they were made in the last decade.

I did some looking on FB marketplace... local sellers. There are some "older" XT2 and XT3's available for not that bad of a price. There is one Sony A7 II, but being sold as a package deal with two Tamron lenses.... don't really need them.

And yeah... totally agree with all the extra features I could care less about. In-body stabilization would be nice (which neither the XT2 or XT3 have.... but the Sony A7 does).

But if I'm going head-to-head with newer bodies, the Sony A7iii is slightly less than a Fujifilm XT5.... Hmm....

L Gebhardt · Sep 13, 2023

If you’re looking for a full frame Sony I can recommend the A7R3 in addition to the A7R4. The R2 has the same sensor as the R3 and the image quality is the same, but things like the larger batt would make me spend a bit more on the new models.

When adapting older lenses I’d definitely aim for full frame over cropped sensors if you will use wide angle lenses.

xkaes · Sep 13, 2023

Sounds like you should concentrate on the camera that best meets your "feature needs". Chances are there are adapters for that camera with your lenses -- whether Canon, Minolta , or C/Y. And who knows, you could get THREE adapters to cover all the bases. I've got Minolta, T-mount, TX, and M42 adapters for my Sony cameras. Recently, I was pleasantly surprised to discover that Vivitar made a Maxxum adapter for their TX lenses -- I've got a Vivitar TX 500mm f8 -- a HUNK-a-glass!

What mirrorless camera to get?

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