What MF System should i buy? (TLR or SLR?)

rbultman

Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2012
Messages
411
Location
Louisville,
Format
Multi Format
Weight-wise, here are the weights of some of the cameras that I own, measured by me on my kitchen scale. Not exactly apples-to-apples, but... I would guess that the Mamiya 645 Pro is about the same weight as the ETRSi. Never bothered to weigh the RB as the lenses are the real weight of that system.

Tower 66/Franka Solida IIIR 6x6 folder - 649 gm
Bessa R3M w/ 40mm Nokton - 714 gm
Fuji GA645 - 808 gm
Canon FTBn w/ 50mm f1.4 - 1036 gm
Canon Rebel XSi w/ 18-135mm - 1080 gm
Yashica MAT 124G - 1116 gm
Fuji GW690II - 1486 gm
Mamiya 645 Pro w/ metering prism, 80mm f1.9, back, winder grip, and batteries - 2124 gm

Good luck with your decision.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

OptiKen

Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2013
Messages
1,055
Location
Orange County
Format
Medium Format
Another thing to consider when looking at the Mamiya C series cameras is that because of the bellows they can do incredible close-ups - focusing as near as 7"
 

xtolsniffer

Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2008
Messages
677
Location
Yorkshire, U
Format
Multi Format
It's a tricky one, you don't often know someone who has each system to play with it to find out what's it like. I got an RB67 in the end as I was interested in macro work and the RB was really the best equipped in terms of close-up work with the bellows and great macro lenses. However (look away now as heretical statement coming up), I never really got on with the 6x7 aspect ratio. It's unsatisfyingly non-square and not really rectangular enough, but then I come from a long heritage of 35 mm aspect ratios. I also take it out less than I should because it's heavy. I played around with some old folders which are great fun but there are usually issues with them, based around the word 'old', bellows leaks, fungus on lenses, inaccurate shutters etc. I love them to shoot for fun though. Recently, funds allowed me to try a TLR, a Mamiya 200f with an 80mm lens which came up pretty cheap. So far I'm really enjoying it. The square format is something I haven't tried before, and it's teaching me to look at things differently, but I know that I can crop vertically or horizontally if I want to, it's light and compact (compared with my RB67) and the discipline of shooting with one lens and one film is quite liberating. I think the best thing is to look at image formats, what do you like to look at, square, 6x7, 35mm, do you want one film or interchangeable backs, do you want interchangeable lenses, and then the range of options will start to focus on a few bits of equipment.
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
53,160
Location
Delta, BC Canada
Format
Medium Format
It is too bad we aren't neighbours, because I have and use a Mamiya C330, a Mamiya 645 Pro and a Mamiya RB67. I also have a couple of folders.

I started with the C330 40+ years ago and eventually had it up to a two body (one C330 and one C220), three finder and four lens kit. When I started acquiring the other Mamiya formats, I started paring down my TLR kit. My current kit is a C330 with 65mm and 135mm lenses, waist level and prism finders and the left hand trigger grip. It all fits nicely in a fairly small bag.

I used the C330 as a wedding camera for years. It works fine as a street camera too. It is a fair bit bigger and heavier than a fixed lens TLR, but a two lens kit is a fair bit smaller and lighter than just about anything out there that offers medium format and lens choice (Mamiya 6 being a possible exception).

The C220 is a bit lighter, but also a bit slower, due to the lack of automatic shutter cocking.

One thing that appeals particularly to me about all the Mamiya cameras is that they happen to work really well if you are left handed like I am. As far as I can tell, they work similarly well for the right handed.

If I had to choose one, I would go back to the C330.
 

mooseontheloose

Moderator
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
4,110
Location
Kyoto, Japan
Format
Multi Format
I started in medium format with a TLR and (many TLRs later) it is still my favourite camera to shoot with. They are small and light - for me about the same weight as an old 35mm camera with 50mm lens (with the exception of the Mamiya C series, which are bigger and heavier, and that's without the extra lenses) and produce wonderful photos. My preferred camera, which really hasn't come up in this discussion, is the Minolta Autocord, which is just as good as a Rolleiflex, but much cheaper - they are similar in price to the better Yashica models. Over time I went to an SLR (Bronica SQ) because I wanted to be able to change lenses and backs, but the weight of the full kit meant I often left the extra backs and lenses at home and it wasn't great as a carry around camera (especially for street). I wanted to go lighter so looked at the Mamiya TLR - no interchangeable backs, but extra lenses would be okay - but realised the weight of the full kit would probably still be an issue, so I went back to a normal TLR, this time a Rolleiflex. Interestingly though, I still find that I prefer the Autocord over all other models, just for ease of handling.

In any event, I think a normal TLR (whatever model) is a good choice as long as its in good condition (and/or has been CLAd recently).
 

Sirius Glass

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
50,399
Location
Southern California
Format
Multi Format
Hasselblad. Was there ever a question otherwise. No the mirror is not that loud. Parts, accessories, lenses and service are readily available. Square is the perfect format. You just have to wait a little longer between buying lenses than the other cameras, but the lenses are superb. You will use the camera the rest of your life while you skip the BASS [Buy And Sell Syndrome] trying everything else because you end up buying the Hasselblad anyway.
 

frank

Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2002
Messages
4,359
Location
Canada
Format
Multi Format
"Wen schon, den schon"

If you're going to do it, do it right. Rolleiflex if you choose tlr Hasselblad if you choose SLR.

It's like wasting all that money on fixed lens rangefinders before finally getting an M2.

If it turns out that you don't like whatever camera you try, there won't be a problem reselling a premium camera with little loss, if any.
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
53,160
Location
Delta, BC Canada
Format
Medium Format
For me (we are talking ergonomics here) Hasselblad means awkward and ill-suited.

Don't ignore what Sirius and frank (and others) have to say. Do understand that the answer can be very personal to you.
 

Ken Nadvornick

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
4,942
Location
Monroe, WA, USA
Format
Multi Format
A minor point regarding TLR shutter noise. The Yashica Mat 124G is very quiet, as its shutter is integral to the non-interchangeable lens camera. However, the seven Mamiya C330 lenses are quite loud by comparison, as the shutters are built into each lens and not the camera body. The Mamiya lenses are closer to individual view camera lenses in that regard.

I own both cameras. I would not use the Mamiya in a church or library if I wished to remain unnoticed. But I wouldn't think twice about using the Yashica in those venues.

Ken
 

Sirius Glass

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
50,399
Location
Southern California
Format
Multi Format
swanlake1 said:
has anyone mentioned folders? they are cheap to play around with. here's a link:

http://www.certo6.com/purchase
Click to expand...


I had one. The Zeiss lens was sharp. No interchangeable lens, no changeable film backs. And most important is that the OP specifically asked about TLRs and SLRs and ther e is no reflex in a folder except the viewfinder in some models.
​
 

swanlake1

Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Messages
68
Format
35mm
True about the reflex, but seems his primary motivation is wanting to go bigger on a budget. That's why I got a folder...I'm happy enough to shoot landscapes with a fixed lens and see how the results turn out.
 

Brett Rogers

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2012
Messages
213
Format
Multi Format
Struggling to understand all the Yashica love. Image quality can be good but they're definitely below Rollei build quality. Apart from anything else Rollei used actual metal for finders, covers etc. instead of cheese. Yashica TLRs are just not nice things to work on. Any of the Rolleicords from the V onwards will be worth considering within your budget. I'd suggest the best example of a V or Va you can find for your money. Simply dropping a fresnel screen in will brighten up the finder of a Rolleicord V. Easily improved. The C220 is a good, reliable option if you want to be able to swap lenses down the track. I rate the Mamiya lenses highly.

SLRs are the way to go if you want maximum versatility in choice of focal length, finders and mid-roll film changing. The Hassy is the gold standard but if you are willing to lug one about RB Mamiyas are more affordable and also reliable. And 6x7. Have you mentioned the ratio you prefer?
 

pdeeh

Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2012
Messages
4,765
Location
UK
Format
Multi Format
MattKing said:
For me (we are talking ergonomics here) Hasselblad means awkward and ill-suited.

Don't ignore what Sirius and frank (and others) have to say. Do understand that the answer can be very personal to you.
Click to expand...

exact.

i had a 124 that looked beautiful and worked beautifully. I never ever used it because every time I picked it up it felt clunky and hard to hold.

I owned 2 500cm for 24 hours each, and to my eternal regret I sent both back because of minor technical issues that would have been easily fixed. they felt perfectly balanced and beautifully usable. as well as perfectly beautiful.


You will never know whether a camera is going to suit you until you pick it up and use it.
 
OP
OP

samhuwyler

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Messages
52
Location
Switzerland
Format
Multi Format
Thanks everyone

I'm really thankful for all your advice and time you invested to help me.

Just to let you know; I just bought a Yashica mat 124g with an additional Viewing Lens Nr. 2 (I don't really know what it is) from ricardo (it's like ebay but swiss) for 175 CHF (roughly 175 $).
It seems to be in very good condition.

I look forward to my first MF experience.

Thank you again and greetings from Switzerland
Samuel
 

pbromaghin

Subscriber
Joined
Sep 30, 2010
Messages
3,810
Location
Castle Rock, CO
Format
Multi Format

Great choice at a nice price. You're going to love it.

Personally, I have a couple Mamiya tlr's for serious work and a Zeiss 6x6 folder for walking around. They were mostly a matter of finding what was available locally and I ended up loving them.
 

Ken Nadvornick

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
4,942
Location
Monroe, WA, USA
Format
Multi Format

Congratulations on your purchase. The Yashica TLRs are an excellent place to begin, and very good value for the money. I'm the original owner of my 124G, purchased new off the shelf decades ago. It still looks and works perfectly without any history of failure, including the meter. While it's true these TLRs are not as robust as the Rolliflexes, a little common sense care will go a long way.

One more tip regarding the 124Gs. There is a well-known tendency for the original lubricants in the shutter mechanism to outgas slightly over time. Normally this is not a problem. But if the camera is left in storage over long periods it's possible for the surface of the rear lens element (inside the film chamber) to haze over slightly. There is no permanent damage involved. Just an annoying need to have the haze cleaned off.

This issue can be mitigated by storing the unused camera with the back opened slightly to allow air to flow. One technique is to keep the partially opened camera stored inside a clean cloth or paper bag. This allows air to circulate, while keeping dust out.

But this approach is only required for storage of the camera over many weeks or months. Reasonably frequent use of the camera, where the back is opened for standard loading and unloading of film, is normally more than sufficient to prevent the issue from occurring.

Ken
 

twoeyeandy

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
27
Location
a small vill
Format
Medium Format
Hey Samuel
I have used all these cameras and they are all good. But as your are moving from 35mm I would discount the Bronica as its too similar, and you want a change yes ? The C330 is big and heavy for a TTL camera and the only reason to have one is too be able to change lenses, so in that case the more modern and useful RB/RZ is a better choice ......espeically for those Swiss landscapes.
But also get the Yashica, is only a sneeze away from a Rolleiflex...trust me you only need one lens. I am slight biased as I think the Rolleiflex is the best do anything camera in the world!
Andy
 

DannL.

Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2013
Messages
617
Format
Large Format

Good choice, if I might say. I'm pleased as Punch with mine. I'm sure you will be tempted as I was, to venture into SLR territory eventually. I would suggest not parting with the 124G until the novelty of the SLR has worn off. Enjoy!
 

michr

Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2012
Messages
440
Format
Multi Format
Depending on your budget, any of the interchangeable lens Mamiya TLRs would be great. A camera from this series in great shape is preferable to a more advanced model in poor shape. The only selling point of the 330 is the autococking feature (doesn't work on all lenses).

With the Mamiyas there's good selection of focal lengths available, and sometimes you can find great deals on lenses. If you need very wide angle or very long lenses, this isn't an appropriate system. Get the porroprism (not the flex/mirror) and you can shoot it like an SLR at eye level.

I'm quite fond of the system, so I'm a bit biased.

The Yashica can be a good camera, if you find one in good shape, but 80mm, the normal focal length for the format, can get boring quickly. The lenses are pretty good, but not worlds better than an old Graflex 22.

The modularity of the Bronica, along with what you see through the viewfinder is what you get make the system attractive. One advantage over the Mamiya is the availability of metering prisms. All three of these are leaf-shutter based, so none offer an advantage over the other on flash sync speeds. Top speed on the Mamiyas is 1/500s, Bronicas may go higher.
 

flavio81

Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
5,073
Location
Lima, Peru
Format
Medium Format

Hi Samuel,

I own both Mamiyas, the C330 and the RB67. The RB67 is my favorite camera of all the cameras I own.

I would say, try to handle a RB67 and if you find the size and weight still manageable, go for it. It is one of the most complete, most capable cameras ever.
Enjoy your Yashica TLR, it could be a very good complement to a RB67, being small and light.

The Mamiya C330 is also a very capable machine as well, being "in-between" the versatility of a RB and the portability of a TLR.
 

twoeyeandy

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
27
Location
a small vill
Format
Medium Format

Perfect choice Samuel. The additional viewing lens is maybe a close up lens. It should come in two parts and are sometimes screwed together for storage. You attach the thinner lens to the bottom lens of your camera and the thicker to the top. They came in 3 focus types. No1 being good for portraits of adults, no2 portraits of kids and no3 for flowers etc.
It's a great camera, once you get used to it...I think my Rolleiflex is the best camera ever made and your Yashica is very similar to it.
Have fun
Andy
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…