What MF System should i buy? (TLR or SLR?)

samhuwyler · Oct 19, 2015

Hello everyone

Currently I'm shooting with my beloved 35mm SLR. But I want to go bigger!
I'm looking for a good camera to get into MF.
I am a student so I'm on a small budget. (max 400CHF ~> 400$)
I searched the web for hours and hours and have now my top 4:

Mamiya C330
Yashica mat 124(g)
Bronica ETRSi
Mamiya RB67

I'm not even sure if I want a TLR or a SLR.

My personal Pros:

TLR
Silent shutter
Lightweight
Does TLRs just look damn fine.

SLR
interchangeable lens (I know the C330 does it too)
interchangeable film back.

I'd like to use it manly for street and portrait. Maybe some landscape.

What would you buy as your one and only MF camera? (On a budget)
I'm open for any suggestion.

Remember that the prices are set higher on the european market.

Thank you and greetings from Switzerland.
Samuel

(I beg your pardon for any grammatical errors, I did my best)

trythis · Oct 19, 2015

I found an Agfa Isollette to be a good starting place. The price for the basic folder was $10 at a flea market in DK. The focus ring was a bit jammed but after that fix I had fun for a while till I got a cheap SLR Mamiya 645 then a Yashicamat 124 (non g). I ended up getting a fuji GA645 and that is my most used because its so easy.

In the end the yashicamat and fuji are better because I get better results and because I dont like carrying the other cameras.

I would expect any yashicamat would need a CLA soon.

Your first medium format may not be your last.

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MattKrull · Oct 19, 2015

I was in your same position.
I treid to save a few bucks and got a Nettar scale focus folder for $50. It was a pain to use, and as a result I never used it. So, I put together a bigger budget (pretty cose to yours) and decided to do MF "right".
While intrigued by the idea of a TLR, I went with the SLR (ETR-Si) route. With a WLF it can be used just like a TLR (though heavier to carry), but I can put on the grip and prism and use it like a normal SLR, depending on what I'm shooting that day.
I've learned that I am lousy at anticipating how I will use camera gear. Everytime I buy a camera for landscape work I endedup using it more for portraits, and all of my "I'll use this for street / portrait" cameras ended up getting most their use in landscape work. Thanfully, the Bronica is able to switch between roles effortlessly.
I have a three lens kit (50mm, 75mm, 150mm) and it has never left me wanting. I managed to get that, with two backs, prism, and speed grip for your budget (the WLF was harder to find and cost extra later, but was well worth it to me).

samhuwyler · Oct 19, 2015

Thank you for your fast reply.

I already have an folding camera, the Kodak six-20. But the winder seems to be broken.

The Yashica mat looks like a good fit. Does it matter if it's g or non g?
Will I be able to CLA it myself?

Thank you and greetings
Samuel

samhuwyler · Oct 19, 2015

MattKrull said:
With a WLF it can be used just like a TLR (though heavier to carry)

That's exactly what I'm afraid of. I like wandering the streets and take some pictures. So when I have that tank of a camera I probably would leave it at home and take my 35mm SLR instead.
How fun is it to shoot with such a beast in the street? Isn't it just to heavy to walk for a couple of hours with?

narsuitus · Oct 19, 2015

samhuwyler said:
What MF System should i buy? (TLR or SLR?)

I cannot tell you which medium format system you should buy; but I can tell you the one I bought.

I preferred the less noisy operation of a twin-lens-reflex vs. the single-lens-reflex.

I preferred the interchangeable lenses of the Mamiya TLR cameras vs. the fixed lens Yashica.

Of the four cameras you listed, I would select the Mamiya C330; however, I actually selected the Mamiya C220 because it was less expensive than the C330.

Since the Mamiya TLR cameras do not have interchangeable backs, I purchased extra camera bodies instead. I owned the C2 and C22 in addition to the C220.

I used the following lenses for weddings and portraits:
55mm f/4.5
80mm f/2.8
180mm f/4.5

narsuitus · Oct 19, 2015

Attached is a photo of a student I recently met who uses a Mamiya C330 for street photography.

Photographer by Narsuitus, on Flickr

samhuwyler · Oct 19, 2015

narsuitus said:
I would select the Mamiya C330; however, I actually selected the Mamiya C220

Thank you for your advice.
I didn't know about the C220.
It looks like a perfect match for my needs.

What should I look out for, when buying one?

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Oct 19, 2015

These are not the cheapest cameras in the world. Wait , collect money and invest in hasselblad. Use your entire life.

Rick A · Oct 19, 2015

Medium format SLR's are great, however they are loud, bulky and prone to breakdown. TLR's are large, Mamiyas are bulky, Yashica's are lighter, quieter and smaller. Mamiya's use interchangeable lenses, Yashicas use auxilliary lenses mounted to front of existing lens. I used to use a Yashica for street shooting, people don't quite register in their head you are shooting them. Mamiya C-220 or C-330 plus a couple of lenses would fit your budget, a Yashica would leave plenty extra money for film. As for Mat 124 or (G) I prefer the non G. I have owned Kowa Super 66's, many different Yashica models, and both Mamiya 220 and 330 models, the Yashicas remain my favorites.

samhuwyler · Oct 19, 2015

Mustafa Umut Sarac said:
These are not the cheapest cameras in the world. Wait , collect money and invest in hasselblad. Use your entire life.

I'm actually selling one of my dslr lens. So if I find someone who's willing to pay double the price, I'll considering getting a Hasselblad. ^^

samhuwyler · Oct 19, 2015

Rick A said:
Medium format SLR's are great, however they are loud, bulky and prone to breakdown. TLR's are large, Mamiyas are bulky, Yashica's are lighter, quieter and smaller. Mamiya's use interchangeable lenses, Yashicas use auxilliary lenses mounted to front of existing lens. I used to use a Yashica for street shooting, people don't quite register in their head you are shooting them. Mamiya C-220 or C-330 plus a couple of lenses would fit your budget, a Yashica would leave plenty extra money for film. As for Mat 124 or (G) I prefer the non G. I have owned Kowa Super 66's, many different Yashica models, and both Mamiya 220 and 330 models, the Yashicas remain my favorites.

So a MF SLR is out of the game.

I don't need to spent all my money. I would be very happy if some is left.
The Mamyia's and the Yashica are about the same price on ebay.
I'll search the web for some reviews etc. on both systems.

Thank you and everyone for their advice.

Slixtiesix · Oct 19, 2015

Your first choice should be on the format (unless you have your own darkroom where you can crop from the negative as you please).
6x4,5cm, 6x6 ot 6x7?
Btw. which focal length do you prefer with your 35mm camera?

Rick A · Oct 19, 2015

Almost forgot, MF range finders. Mamiya makes some fantastic range finders, but way out of my(and the OP's) budget. But, a Fuji 6x9 is in that price range, with ultra sharp optics coupled with an easy to use RF that's accurate. I bought a Fuji GW690ii earlier this year, stunning negatives is an understatement.

RobC · Oct 19, 2015

I think TLR's are good for people photography since you can see if they move or blink when you take the shot and there's no shutter lag.
I would suggest you consider future usage. If you want/need additional lenses for flexibility of use then an SLR is probably the better option.
Whether you want 6x6, 6x7, 6x4.5 and the orientation (portrait or landscape) must also be considered.

narsuitus · Oct 19, 2015

Many years ago, I worked for a photographic studio that had a pool of Yashica Mat camera to be used by its photographers for shooting fraternity and sorority socials, bar mitzvahs and bat mitzvahs, and weddings. This was my first introduction to a TLR camera. I loved the Yashica and the images it produced. However, the daily wear, tear, and abuse by multiple users resulted in frequent camera failure. I tried to avoid camera failure by purchasing my own TLR. That is when I purchased my first Mamiya TLR body with an 80mm f/2.8 lens. I would have purchased a Yashica, however, I knew I was going to need telephoto and wide angle lenses for the type of shooting I planned on doing outside of the studio.

Bottom line, if you do not need interchangeable lenses, the Yashica is an excellent choice.

samhuwyler · Oct 19, 2015

Slixtiesix said:
Your first choice should be on the format (unless you have your own darkroom where you can crop from the negative as you please).
6x4,5cm, 6x6 ot 6x7?
Btw. which focal length do you prefer with your 35mm camera?

Since I never shot on a MF camera I don't have a favorite format. But I think I like the 6x6 format quiet well.

Mostly I use a 55mm on my 35mm. So the yashica mat 124 lens is about the same. But I'm eager to tryout 80mm (35mm).
To be able to change the focal length sounds pretty good.

Ko.Fe. · Oct 19, 2015

Mamiya C exchangeable lenses isn't really practical solution. Limited and complicated. Too bulky for the street or even just for the storage, carry on. With nothing special optics. Have it, sold it.

124G is a lot more fun, the lens is special by its crazy sharpeners and huge contrast. The focusing is superior to more expensive Rolleicord V, I have. And overall it is much more easier camera to use.
Comparing to Mamiya and Rolleicord it is light camera and better choice for the street and portraiture from my experience. 124G isn't build as good as those two, but after CLA it might be next to perfect.

For SLR (which is very different from TLR) I would just try to find working classic fully mechanical Hassie with standard and portrait (later) lens. 6x6 and 645 backs. Amazing camera, you have to hold it and operate it once. After it you'll realize what the rest is the substitute to it. Often complicated with unnecessary for amateur use electronics to be handy and enjoyable. IMO.

Cheers, Ko.

narsuitus · Oct 19, 2015

Mustafa Umut Sarac said:
Wait , collect money and invest in hasselblad. Use your entire life.

The Hasselblad is a well-built camera with outstanding lenses. I did not get one for the following reasons:

1. The loud mirror slap was too much for my taste.

2. The model I was considering did not have an instant return mirror.

3. The price was too high for my budget. I was able to purchase a Mamiya TLR body and three lenses for a fraction of the cost of a Hasselblad with three lenses. Plus, if I had waited to collect enough money to invest in a Hasselblad, I would have waited about twenty years. During that twenty years, my Mamiya made money for me.

Attached is a photo of a photographer with a Hasselblad that he was selling:

Photographer by Narsuitus, on Flickr

narsuitus · Oct 19, 2015

samhuwyler said:
Thank you for your advice.
I didn't know about the C220.
It looks like a perfect match for my needs.

What should I look out for, when buying one?

I looked for holes in the bellows. I carried a small light that I could insert into the camera to look for light leaks.

shoot6x7 · Oct 19, 2015

MF Rangefinders are awesome. How about a Mamiya 6 or Mamiya 7ii or Bronica 645 or Plaubel Makina or even a Holga just for fun ?

trythis · Oct 19, 2015

The G and non G are the same, except the G is newer and has less chrome.

CLA is not so easy. I stripped mine to the shutter blades 4 times to get it right. But winding problems came up and it needed pro work. If the lens is bad internally then it would need replacement.

Then again, one of my favorite cameras is a meniscus lens box camera.
Its light and very easy to use, just not very versatile with one shutter speed.

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rbultman · Oct 19, 2015

Go with the MAT. It is tiny compared to the RB. It travels easily and is light. Get a lens shade for the taking lens. Filters are inexpensive. Spend the balance of your budget on a CLA or film.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

MattKrull · Oct 19, 2015

samhuwyler said:
That's exactly what I'm afraid of. I like wandering the streets and take some pictures. So when I have that tank of a camera I probably would leave it at home and take my 35mm SLR instead.How fun is it to shoot with such a beast in the street? Isn't it just to heavy to walk for a couple of hours with?

How fun is it to shoot in "tlr-esque" mode? Very.
Stripped down to a lens and WLF it weighs noticibly more than a manual focus 80s 35mm SLR, but less than a modern "full frame" DSLR with a pro zoom lens.
I haven't put mine on a scale, but I have a wide neoprene padded shoulder strap (originally meant for bigger 6x7 cameras judging by the different attachment mechanism it uses), and I don't find it uncomfortable for walking around. Longest I've walked with it on my should is about 3 hours through a museum and the weight never intruded my conciousness.

Slixtiesix · Oct 19, 2015

Since I never shot on a MF camera I don't have a favorite format. But I think I like the 6x6 format quiet well.

Mostly I use a 55mm on my 35mm. So the yashica mat 124 lens is about the same. But I'm eager to tryout 80mm (35mm).
To be able to change the focal length sounds pretty good.

Then I would recommend a TLR with 80mm lens. Either Yashica or Maybe a Rolleicord Vb or Rolleiflex T if funds permit (should suffice).

What MF System should i buy? (TLR or SLR?)

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