What kind of lubricant to use?

Markster · Sep 10, 2013

I've got a Canon Power Winder A but it's somewhat noisy. I was rather surprised how noisy. I removed the faux leather and unscrewed it but from what I could figure out it wasn't the servo itself making the noise but the 5-6 gears that were attached to it (some kind of reduction gear system).

I couldn't get them off because I didn't have a circlip remover tool at the time. I tried some 3-in-1 sewing machine oil but it didn't really help. So I got some Plio-Bond to put it all back together but I figure I'll give it another try before putting on the Plio-Bond.

So, the question is: What kind of lubricant would give the best results? I'm looking to make it quieter and last as long as possible. I also may need to clean up the 3-in-1 oil I put on from before, just to make sure.

Thanks in advance.

shutterfinger · Sep 10, 2013

3 in 1 oil is vegetable based and will dry out and leave a sticky residue. When it time to relube the sewing machine one wipes off the old goo and applies the fresh oil.
Wipe the gears off with an alcohol swab then apply a light coat of White Lithium Grease which is easily found at hardware and stores that sell power tools.

Rudolf Karachun · Sep 10, 2013

For the gear tooth’s you need some kind of grease type lubricant . Check the Microtools.com , they have a number of lubricants for the cameras, but this lubricants expensive. I think you can try a little bit of technical Vaseline or white lithium grease from the automotive stores. You need just a little bit on the toothed part of the gears. The old oils and greases can be removed with lighter fluid and a small brash.

bobwysiwyg · Sep 10, 2013

3 in 1 oil is vegetable based..

Have you proof of this? I don't believe it's true though not recommending its use for this purpose.

Markster · Sep 10, 2013

Thanks for all the helpful comments!

E. von Hoegh · Sep 10, 2013

bobwysiwyg said:
Have you proof of this? I don't believe it's true though not recommending its use for this purpose.

It's always acted, felt, looked, and smelled like a petroleum oil. I've never noticed it drying up, I use it on an antique reel type lawnmower (because someone gave me a giant can of it. I oil the mower before and after every use). But I have to admit I've never paid close attention to it; I use it on the mower as much to wash away any grit as to lubricate it.
No, I'm not advising you to put it on your winder!
Lithium or molybdenum disulphide grease is the way to go there.

AgX · Sep 10, 2013

With plastic gears silicone grease weould be an alternative.

Though I try to avoid a silicone oils and greases, due to spread, surfaces unwillingly becoming slippery and the difficulty (compared to Petroleum based lubricants) to remove it.

E. von Hoegh · Sep 10, 2013

AgX said:
With plastic gears silicone grease weould be an alternative.

Though I try to avoid a silicone oils and greases, due to spread, surfaces unwillingly becoming slippery and the difficulty (compared to Petroleum based lubricants) to remove it.

+100 on the silicone lubes. I don't use them unless neccesary - meaning specified.
Plastic gears are usually pretty quiet, though.

Newt_on_Swings · Sep 10, 2013

I use a white lithium grease that has teflon in it. The can says its designed for metal to metal. So far its been fine, even on lens helicals and gives it a decent focusing feel, not as nice when the lens is new, slightly stiffer. I contemplated buying the nicer lubes, but some get really expensive for a tiny squirt tube. Wasnt worth it for me, especially when I was cleaning and lubing things that didnt cost much anyway. I also use graphite/moly powder too but not for gears, I mix it up with some naptha and apply it.

Gerald C Koch · Sep 10, 2013

I have always used lubricants that are intended for fishing reels such as Penn Lube. Try any store that sells fishing equipment.

Markster · Sep 11, 2013

Interesting point re: silicon grease...

These are specifically metal posts with plastic gears. There may be ball bearings under the gear hubs but I can't tell until I remove them, and I haven't yet.

With this plastic/metal combination, will lithium greases (mentioned above) harm the plastic in any way?

Gerald C Koch · Sep 11, 2013

Be careful some greases have a tendency to creep and wind up where they can cause damage.

shutterfinger · Sep 11, 2013

A google search for " lubricate plastic gears " results in some good posts in the first few links. The type of lubricant to use depends on the type of plastic the gears are made of. White lithium will work fine on some and not on others.

Dennis S · Sep 11, 2013

The white lithium for some places and the a drop of clock oil reduces/eliminates the "shutter squeal" on my Canons

lxdude · Sep 11, 2013

shutterfinger said:
3 in 1 oil is vegetable based and will dry out and leave a sticky residue.

3-in-1 oil MSDS:

Ingredient:..............................................................CAS#...................Weight Percent

Severely Hydrotreated Heavy Napthenic Oil............64742-52-5........................>97

Naptha, petroleum.............................................64742-47-8........................<2

Non-hazardous Ingredients.....................................Mixture...........................<3

shutterfinger · Sep 11, 2013

Severely Hydrotreated Heavy Napthenic Oil:
http://hazmap.nlm.nih.gov/category-details?id=10696&table=copytblagents
Sources/uses:Used in the chemical, fuel, agricultural, electrical/electronic engineering, metal refining, coatings (paints, lacquers, and varnishes), pulp & paper, polymers, and lubricant blending industries; Used as an adhesive, binding agent, corrosion inhibitor, dust-binding agent, explosive, fertilizer, filler, fuel additive, heat transfer agent, hydraulic fluid, intermediate, lubricant, solvent, softener, surface-active agent, viscosity adjustor, impregnation agent, insulating material, and welding/soldering agent; [IUCLID] Additional uses include carpet backing, various consumer products, diluents and carriers, industrial foams, feedstock for refrigeration and white oils, organic fibers, tanning, and titanium wash oils; [Ergon Refining MSDS]

Still not a good oil for cameras.

----
assumed vegetable based from gummy build up of 3 in 1 motor oil used on electric motors.
3 in 1 motor oil msds:
http://www.3inone.com/files/pdf/msds-3in31675284.pdf
Composition:
Solvent, dewaxed heavy paraffinic petroleum >96%
Naptha, petroleum <2%
Non-Hazardous Ingredients <4%
percentages by weight.
Another not a good oil for cameras.

pentaxpete · Sep 11, 2013

Oh Dear !! I have been using Three-in-One to lubricate in the baseplate cogs of my 1960's-70's Asahi Pentaxes and my Canon FTbn and A1 but they all seem OK still and wind on very smoothly now . I just touch a piece of fuse wire into one drop of the Oil in a dish and then touch it into the cogs and by capillary action it goes in -- very SMALL amounts only.

Markster · Sep 11, 2013

I don't suppose anybody knows specifically what Canon used back in the '80s when they assembled them?

I think I'm probably going to have to tear it down completely to clean it all and put it back together. It's not all that complex, but still something I haven't done before.

shutterfinger · Sep 11, 2013

Oh Dear !! I have been using Three-in-One to lubricate

You are using the correct amount and the worst that will happen is it builds up and you have to flush it out before applying more or that it reacts unfavorably with the plastic but I think it would have done that by now.
I use TriFlow, watch oil and gun oil work well also.

AgX · Sep 11, 2013

Markster said:
I don't suppose anybody knows specifically what Canon used back in the '80s when they assembled them?

In the original repair manuals Canon give the designations of the lubricants. Though those do not make me wiser...

VPooler · Sep 12, 2013

First: ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS clean out old lubricant before applying new one!!!!! I can't stress it enough. As far as I've been taught, not doing so wears out components and fast.
For your application I would go for ol' trusty white lithium grease. Don't use too much, a dab will do. Overoiling has never solved anything. I use lithium mostly on my skateboard bearings and that stuff is wonderful.

E. von Hoegh · Sep 13, 2013

VPooler said:
First: ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS clean out old lubricant before applying new one!!!!! I can't stress it enough. As far as I've been taught, not doing so wears out components and fast. For your application I would go for ol' trusty white lithium grease. Don't use too much, a dab will do. Overoiling has never solved anything. I use lithium mostly on my skateboard bearings and that stuff is wonderful.

This is absolutely correct. Hence the Term, CLEAN, lubricate adjust.
But of course, if you want to do half a job feel free.
Personally I'll buy a non-functional watch or camera, but I won't buy one that's been worked on unless it's been worked on by someone I know to do good work.

removed account4 · Sep 13, 2013

noseoil

E. von Hoegh · Sep 14, 2013

jnanian said:
noseoil

I wonder if that's like Oil of Dog? http://www.classicreader.com/book/2058/1/

cliveh · Sep 14, 2013

How about sewing machine oil?

What kind of lubricant to use?

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