What is your opinion on Bronica SQ-A?

reddesert

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The SQ-Ai has some revised electronics and it uses 4 button batteries, while the SQ/SQ-A/SQ-B use a single 6V PX28 or 4LR44 battery (commonly available, same as in the Canon AE-1 etc). The SQ-Ai needs a plastic button battery holder which is commonly lost. I have designed a 3D-printable replacement with files available at https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5256045

The SQ-Ai has some different capabilities WRT motor drive and dedicated TTL flash that are probably not that important to most users today.

I don't think there's much to choose from in the electronics. The electronics in these cameras, as in all the Bronica ETR/SQ/GS cameras, are for shutter timing and metering, and not really that complex.

The leaf shutters and mirror mechanism are completely different in the ETR/SQ/GS series versus the S2/EC focal plane shutter and mirror (note the EC is also electronically timed).
 

wiltw

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MFstooges said:
What's the main difference between SQ-A and SQ-Ai? Is one of them more electronically dependent therefore less possible to repair? How different is the SQ-A/Ai mirror mechanism compared to the notoriously complex S2/S2A?
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The main change due to the 'i' is primarily in support of TTL off-the-film flash metering with SCA-compatible flash (like Metz). Also, in going the 'i', there was the addition of features like mirror lockup and multiexposure mode...but nottrue here, in the case of A vs Ai, (of the later vintage SQA) both have multi-exposure and mirror lock-up capabilities (some older SQA do not have mirror lockup. SQAi has a Bulb mode on the shutter speed dial And there is the battery type change.
 
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abruzzi

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They have basically the same electronic. Specifically all shutter speed except 1/500 use electronics to hold the shutter open for a longer time than the mechanical speed. Without electronics, you’re stuck the fastest shutter speed. There is also connections from the back that pass to the prism and allow the AE prisms to do a return priority.

As far as actual difference between the two models, I’d know everything, but I believe the SQ-Ai allows slower shutter speeds (up to 8 sec IIRC.). It has a folding manual crank (the SQ-A uses the same crank design as the ETRSi, while the SQ-Ai uses the same type of folding crank as the GS-1 (make sure any of the later Bronicas you buy have the crank because they get removed to mount the grip, then lost, and replacements are pricy and hard to find.
 

koraks

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abruzzi said:
I believe the SQ-Ai allows slower shutter speeds (up to 8 sec IIRC.).
Click to expand...

Yes, it goes down/up to 8 sec before you have to resort to Bulb.

Also, what you said about the crank is true. The handle falls off really easily. It still works fine without the handle, but it's annoying to lose it, obviously.
 

Sixbysixjan

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MFstooges said:
What's the main difference between SQ-A and SQ-Ai? Is one of them more electronically dependent therefore less possible to repair? How different is the SQ-A/Ai mirror mechanism compared to the notoriously complex S2/S2A?
Click to expand...

Hi MF, the SQ-Ai has the ability to do auto TTL flash metering - but sadly (I think) only with one brand of flash equipment (Metz). Note that I have never owned one of these flashes or even used one so take the "one brand" statement with a grain of salt. There are othere differences as well - for some reason they went to a different battery for the camara's shutter speed timer - changed from a single PX28 battery to 4 of those darn miniscule PX76 batteries... Big frustration for me as trying to change batteries out in the field with my clumsy hands on a cold windy day usually leads to disaster. I read somewhere (also take this with a grain of salt) that the PX28 battery is really a container system for 4 X PX76 cells. There are other differences too, the SQ-Ai being the later version they added the "B" shutter setting to the shutter speed selector knob on the body (with the SQ-A it is a slightly goofy trick you have to do on the lens itself).

Also, a different winder crank on the SQ-Ai from the previous versions - also no idea why it was changed, but if you do end up buying a SQ-Ai make sure the winder crank is included (I have seen silly money being asked for it on Ebay).

One other difference which may be a show stopper for some people is that the SQ-Ai went from the all-metal body unit on the preceding models to some VERY durable plastic material - I have never been able to break a SQ-Ai body (even accidentally dropping it) and years later it still looks brand new (the metal bodies quickly shows cosmetic wear, that SQ-A body I have that was perviously owned by a wedding photographer looks pretty bad. To be honest I actually prefer the SQ-Ai body over the SQ-A.
 
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wiltw

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The Bronica film TTL capability makes use of the SCA 300 flash concept...same as Hasselblad 503CX uses.
The SCA 300 flash concept was, at one point in time, supported by several different European flash manufacturers, Metz being one of them. It allowed a single flash unit to be tailored to many different camera brands via the use of the SCA flash adapter suited to that brand. As a result, a single Metz SCA-compatible flash can be used in compatible way...my Metz flash units work with Olympus OM-4 TTL system, Bronica ETRSi, and even with my Canon digital SLRs eTTL. In the case of Bronica and Hasselblad, each company offered its own brand SCA-compatible flash adapter; Bronica let Metz sell the flash, while Hasselblad offered a Hasselblad-brand version of the Metz flash!
Sadly, SCA system vendors dropped out of the flash business, leaving Metz the lone SCA soldier. And the cheap throwaway flash brands helped to drive Metz out of business. In 2015, the Metz TV business was taken over by a Chinese electronics manufacturer, while the flash business was bought by a Germany to form Metz mecatech GmbH. And the dedicated flash units of camera manufacturers were part of the Metz abandonment of the SCA system entirely. While there is some new-in-box SCA adapter stuff on the market, one needs to largely look for used Metz SCA flash units.
 

DWThomas

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I cobbled together an SQ-A kit in 2006 with the notion of going minimalist using an 80mm, WLF, and two backs. Some years later I seem to have the 50, 65,110 f/4.5 1:1 macro, 150, and a 2x telextender. All of the lenses (except the 2x extender) are the newer PS series. Oh, and backs, which seem to be the Achilles' heel, I now have four but one is out of service with a light leak at the darkslide slot.

At the time that collecting started the SQ-Ai was noticeably more costly, and I sensed a higher rate of problems related to that 4-cell button battery thing. As far as I know, the four cell thing is identical in capacity to the PX28 and was used to shoehorn in an extra electronic module for the enhanced flash stuff in the Ai. It also struck me years back that the aging metered finders seemed a bit wonky and prone to battery drain, so I've never acquired one.

My original SQ-A body started acting up (shutter release issues) and I acquired another that was in way better cosmetic condition which has been my goto for that system. A third body, far more shopworn, hangs around as a spare. (So much for minimalism! ) It might be of some concern that some of the former repair guys seem to have retired and some parts may be more difficult to find. Of course for casual use, any given unit could potentially work for years.

These days, if I want to actually do some serious, studio style work, or don't mind dragging a tripod around with me, I might use the Bronica, but I confess it's not seen much use in the last four or five years. I like the format, but I find the SQxx less than attractive for walk-around hand-held use. Toward the extreme, the SQ-A with the 110 mm macro and the WLF weighs in at almost 2Kg (4 lb 5 1/4 oz). Although it admittedly has that sense of a 'serious' item of metal and glass!

In 6x6 I later acquired a Voigtländer Perkio II folder, and then eventually (in 2010) picked up a Yashica Mat 124G which currently is my most used of that group. In 2018, when out on a sub-freezing day, it worked but the shutter release button had a noticeably slow return. I sent it to Mark Hama and it came back like a new one -- even the built-in meter works, although I tend to use a separate meter and incident measuring mostly.

If given the old "if you knew then what you know now ..." bit, I'm still not too sure what I would do. Many of us likely vary from week to week in what we think we want to shoot (and also aren't getting younger!) That further blurs the specs for an "ideal" camera.
 
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MFstooges

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The compactness of folder is always a plus for me but I assume their lens is not as flare resistance is the later model SLRs or RF. I once had a 6X9 Zeiss and focusing through the tiny RF isn't easy.
 

DWThomas

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MFstooges said:
The compactness of folder is always a plus for me but I assume their lens is not as flare resistance is the later model SLRs or RF. I once had a 6X9 Zeiss and focusing through the tiny RF isn't easy.
Click to expand...

The Perkeo II has a Color Skopar which is a coated (no doubt only single) Tessar design that gives a good account of itself. I'm not sure it's particularly handicapped in that regard. But folders in general can be a bit fiddly, there's a price for that compactness.

I know what you're saying about viewfinders, I often liken my Argus C-3 to spying through a keyhole. One finder problem encountered with the Perkeo is using a push-on adapter and a sunshade causes interference at the lower right field of view, although it's not a super large portion of the scene (and also depends on how large a diameter the adapted shade is).

Re-reading above -- for the SQ-A I omitted that I also have the 90º and 45º prism (non-metered) finders. But for my typical shooting, I hardly ever use them.
 

Zenzanon Fan

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Have my original SQAi body for around 30 years and it still works perfectly so very reliable in my opinion.
 

beemermark

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Why do people think cameras with electronics are not repairable? I've used a Bronica SQ for years with no problems. Along the way I picked up an SQ-A and SQ-AI, both non-working, as a cheap way to get extra backs, lenses, finders,etc. 3 months ago I sent both cameras and a back to Camera Service in Atlanta. Repair cost for the SQ-A was $235m the SQ-AI was $255. $75 for the back. Decided I didn't need 3 bodies so I didn't get the SQ-A repaired. Repair took 2 weeks. The lenses are fantastic and while I have a Rolleiflex 2.8F (and a 3.5E) there is no way I could afford a wide angle Rolleiflex. An outfit isn't that heavy or awkward with the WLF. The cameras bear no resemblance to the older S models. Note repairs costs are about the same for any other camera (quoted $200 to give a Kodak III a CLA).

Anyone want a SQ-A and WLF for $150? I can include the estimate and/or send it direct to Camera Service
 

koraks

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beemermark said:
Why do people think cameras with electronics are not repairable?
Click to expand...

Because documentation, spare parts and the required knowledge & experience have gotten scarce, or in the case of documentation may never even have been released by the manufacturer.
I'm glad that you were able to get your SQ-stuff fixed; this is hopeful. What defect(s) did your bodies suffer from?
 

neilt3

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People seem to forget that more than just Metz produced SCA system flash .

I do have a hammerhead flash from Metz , but my main setup for my Bronica ETRSi and SQ-Ai is a Sunpak setup .

I have several standard flash guns that have interchangable modules , but I also have two different ring flashes for macro , either fastened to the filter thread if my macro lenses on both systems , or whichever lens I have attached to my macro bellows .
TTL flash control for macro is so much easier and saves lots of calculations.
I also have a flash gun that has a bare bulb in the centre with a half sphere reflector that gives nice results that are less harsh than a regular electric flash .

Certainly more options than Metz .
 

beemermark

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The SQ-Ai was dead. No power. The SQ-A works but the shutter speed dial is disconnected so it only fires at one speed. Lenses are superb and cheap. One "advantage" of the SQ-Ai over the previous SQ models is that it takes four common 1.5 volt button batteries. The other models require one 6 volt battery.
 
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koraks

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Those sound like fairly straightforward/simple defects. I'm not too surprised that those can be repaired. More miscellaneous problems, I'm less hopeful about.
 

wiltw

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neilt3 said:
People seem to forget that more than just Metz produced SCA system flash .

...

Certainly more options than Metz .
Click to expand...

That is why I mentioned that Metz was among the vendors with flash in the SCA system, "supported by several different European flash manufacturers, Metz being one of them. "
At one time 4 decades back, I purchased a used Agfa flash at a camera swap, and it was SCA-compatible and worked with my Metz brand module. Unfortunately it eventually died and went to the great trash bin in the sky. When I purchased the Agfa in the 1980's, one never heard of Agfa in the flash business in the photography magazines.
 
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reddesert

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I think there are a few issues:

- people confuse "can't be serviced economically" with can't be serviced - if another used body costs $200, repair may be more expensive. It's not impossible but it's not economically motivated the way servicing an expensive Hasselblad or Leica is.
- documentation isn't non-existent, repair manuals exist and I assume shops have them, but spare parts are limited to whatever's left over. If a repair requires replacing the circuit board rather than cleaning a switch, it may not be possible. However dirty switches are much more likely than failed microcontrollers.
- for the above reasons, there is likely less demand and fewer repair people to work on them.
 

yurihuta

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As to getting these repaired you have very good, current options in the USA.

Frank Marshman - camera repair legend. I think he bought most of Jimmy Koh's parts for all things Bronica.
Jimmy Koh of Koh's Camera might still work on Bronica (he is factory trained) and has repaired SQ series for me in the past. I bought an overhauled SQ-A from him two years ago.

I sold my Hasselblad X-Pan so I could do panoramic images, but with a much larger selection of lenses with my SQ-A set up. I have the 135-W back (and matched focusing screen).
 

wiltw

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I just did a web search to see if I could find Jimmy Koh...with the right search words I found him. Unfortunately the website proclaims, http://www.kohscamera.com/

"Koh's Camera are no longer open to the public, appointments only,! ( We also no long repair cameras )"​
 

yurihuta

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email him directly or call the shop to talk to him. I saw the same notice, but when I saw the overhauled SQ-A I wrote them and Jimmy replied and said that he did the work and to contact him if I had issues with my other SQ series gear.
 

wiltw

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Good to know there still can be found factory trained repair service.
 
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