What is wrong with my Kiev 4AM

redstarjedi · Sep 16, 2015

Hello APUG. I've shot two rolls on my Kiev 4am. The second roll was after a CLA by Walter's camera repair in los angeles. Well i see this strange effect on the top of some frames. I don't quite know what it is, and i was hoping some one could diagnose this problem for me. Please see the attached pictures. Also the frame spacing on the negatives are horrible, i wonder if that can even be fixed.

its always the top right

this one is with flash

very faint here, but its there

zanxion72 · Sep 16, 2015

Is it possible to add a photo of the negative? It could be that the roll is not running horizontally, but tilted a bit. Are the frames perfectly horizontal on the film stripes? If not, the automatic lab printing will not align to your frames and you will get the blank margins of the film in your prints.
The spacing should be normal. Not insanely accurately consistent, but pretty much among your frames. When winding on the next frame, do not do it smoothly and not quickly. It can be repaired, but it is not worth the cost and one can live with that as long as there is no overlapping.

Cycler · Sep 16, 2015

You are winding the knob until it stops? And are careful to ensure that the sprocket-holes are engaged on both sides before closing the back?

Xmas · Sep 16, 2015

zanxion72 said:
Is it possible to add a photo of the negative? It could be that the roll is not running horizontally, but tilted a bit. Are the frames perfectly horizontal on the film stripes? If not, the automatic lab printing will not align to your frames and you will get the blank margins of the film in your prints.
The spacing should be normal. Not insanely accurately consistent, but pretty much among your frames. When winding on the next frame, do not do it smoothly and not quickly. It can be repaired, but it is not worth the cost and one can live with that as long as there is no overlapping.

You need to learn to look at the negative instead of posting a scan of a print or a positive scan.
If you are still stuck scan the whole negative as a negative sprocket holes and all.

The uneven spacing is a generic problem of all the kievs as well as Contax II precursors.

If the last few frames don't overlap don't worry.

gone · Sep 16, 2015

Bull. A positive scan is exactly what a negative is, only it's the opposite. It will show you just what is wrong w/ the camera as easily as a negative will, assuming one knows what to look for. Where did that science come from?

Since the issue is showing at the top, and the Kiev has a very complicated vertical running shutter, then the problem is probably some sort of shutter bounce, which is happening only now and then. They either have the shutter speed running too high, or there's another issue that is preventing the shutter from reliably coming up and down all the way. The frame spacing I have no idea on, but Dr google will probably point you in the right direction. When FSU cameras malfunction, their problems tend to be very well documented.

Back to Walter's, and bring them a print or a neg.

Sewin · Sep 16, 2015

It would be useful to see the negative strips, not individual pictures, so as to see the banding over a series of frames, also some Kievs do seem to have a problem with uneven frame spacing, particularly towards the end of the film.

chrisaisenbrey · Sep 16, 2015

Ive never had a Kiev4 in my hands (neither the Contax equivalents). But it has a vertical shutter, going from top to down. In the camera the picture is inverted. Hence I would think the first curtain is not opening completely or slows down towards the end.

Xmas · Sep 16, 2015

momus said:
Bull. A positive scan is exactly what a negative is, only it's the opposite. It will show you just what is wrong w/ the camera as easily as a negative will, assuming one knows what to look for. Where did that science come from?

Since the issue is showing at the top, and the Kiev has a very complicated vertical running shutter, then the problem is probably some sort of shutter bounce, which is happening only now and then. They either have the shutter speed running too high, or there's another issue that is preventing the shutter from reliably coming up and down all the way. The frame spacing I have no idea on, but Dr google will probably point you in the right direction. When FSU cameras malfunction, their problems tend to be very well documented.

Back to Walter's, and bring them a print or a neg.

You are trying to confuse a beginner they need to look at the negative.
If he goes back to repair person he needs to take the negative.
Positive prints or scans are no good, the repair person will need the negative.

All Contax II & III have uneven spacing closing up to frame 36 you cannot blame the Soviets on that?

You are correct it is probably a blind run problem, firing the shutter on B should be sufficient to diagnose.

Ko.Fe. · Sep 16, 2015

Nothing is wrong. It is AM model, be happy it works somehow, somewhat.

Xmas · Sep 16, 2015

Serviced they should be ok.

The kit Helious 103 is a real good performer on colour film with a lens hood.

redstarjedi · Sep 16, 2015

zanxion72 said:
Is it possible to add a photo of the negative? It could be that the roll is not running horizontally, but tilted a bit. Are the frames perfectly horizontal on the film stripes? If not, the automatic lab printing will not align to your frames and you will get the blank margins of the film in your prints.
The spacing should be normal. Not insanely accurately consistent, but pretty much among your frames. When winding on the next frame, do not do it smoothly and not quickly. It can be repaired, but it is not worth the cost and one can live with that as long as there is no overlapping.

Some of the frames are perfectly horizontal but most are not. It's apparent in the negative too.

redstarjedi · Sep 16, 2015

Cycler said:
You are winding the knob until it stops? And are careful to ensure that the sprocket-holes are engaged on both sides before closing the back?

Yes, and Yes.

redstarjedi · Sep 16, 2015

zanxion72 said:
Is it possible to add a photo of the negative? It could be that the roll is not running horizontally, but tilted a bit. Are the frames perfectly horizontal on the film stripes? If not, the automatic lab printing will not align to your frames and you will get the blank margins of the film in your prints.
The spacing should be normal. Not insanely accurately consistent, but pretty much among your frames. When winding on the next frame, do not do it smoothly and not quickly. It can be repaired, but it is not worth the cost and one can live with that as long as there is no overlapping.

Here are a few cell phone photos of the negatives ontop of a light box. Please look at the top right of each frame something is off. What do i tell the repair man?

redstarjedi · Sep 16, 2015

Xmas said:
Serviced they should be ok.

The kit Helious 103 is a real good performer on colour film with a lens hood.

Yes, it is and that's why i want to keep it. It's sharp and detailed, yet surprisingly low contrast. That's a character that i don't get with any other lens that i have.

Xmas · Sep 16, 2015

redstarjedi said:
Yes, it is and that's why i want to keep it. It's sharp and detailed, yet surprisingly low contrast. That's a character that i don't get with any other lens that i have.

You need a generic screw in lens hood.

Xmas · Sep 16, 2015

redstarjedi said:
Here are a few cell phone photos of the negatives ontop of a light box. Please look at the top right of each frame something is off. What do i tell the repair man?

Include the negative strips with camera.

The first blind may be stalling.
Remove back select B and depress the release the first blind should complete. Don't forget your negtive image is upside down and left to right.

Don't touch the slats of the blind they are rugged but don't touch...

MattKing · Sep 16, 2015

The image area leaks into the sprockets on the bottom side, and leaves an unexposed strip at the top.

From the other comments in the thread, I'm guessing that this might not be unusual with this model.

The solution may be to learn to crop everything, and avoid mounted slides.

Xmas · Sep 16, 2015

MattKing said:
The image area leaks into the sprockets on the bottom side, and leaves an unexposed strip at the top.

From the other comments in the thread, I'm guessing that this might not be unusual with this model.

The solution may be to learn to crop everything, and avoid mounted slides.

No the repair person has not checked the 1st blind run.
OP needs to return, or live with it.
Although the Soviets simplified it -- it us still a ContaxII!
Cept for the lens probably a summicron type IV clone!

Xmas · Sep 16, 2015

They are easy to strip and rebuild.

John Koehrer · Sep 16, 2015

For a SWAG, I wonder if there's a mask at the film aperture slightly out of position

redstarjedi · Sep 16, 2015

Xmas said:
Include the negative strips with camera.

The first blind may be stalling.
Remove back select B and depress the release the first blind should complete. Don't forget your negtive image is upside down and left to right.

Don't touch the slats of the blind they are rugged but don't touch...

It's tough for me to see if the blinds are not moving at the same rate or uniformly. Looks like they are but the repair man will take a look tomorrow.

Thanks for everyone help.

redstarjedi · Sep 18, 2015

redstarjedi said:
It's tough for me to see if the blinds are not moving at the same rate or uniformly. Looks like they are but the repair man will take a look tomorrow.

Thanks for everyone help.

So my repair man took at look at it and the issue inst repairable without spare parts. So we agreed to a trade since he is a collector and i want a soviet rangefinder.

He even gave me some free film to test the camera, and agreed to repair any defects should any be present!

Is this a fair trade you ask? Well i couldn't really get used to the "contax grip" So i'm liking the fed 5 a lot more.

Thanks for everyone's help.

What is wrong with my Kiev 4AM

redstarjedi

Attachments

zanxion72

Cycler

Xmas

gone

Sewin

chrisaisenbrey

Xmas

Ko.Fe.

Xmas

redstarjedi

redstarjedi

redstarjedi

Attachments

redstarjedi

Xmas

Xmas

MattKing

Moderator

Xmas

Xmas

John Koehrer

redstarjedi

redstarjedi

Attachments

What is wrong with my Kiev 4AM

Attachments

Attachments

Moderator

Attachments

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency