What is this 5x7 holder?

I recently put in a bid on some decent looking 5x7 wooden holders on fleaBay. And I won!!

Except they aren't regular 5x7 film holders. Now, to be honest to the seller, it is what was pictured. But they sure won't fit under a 5x7 spring back.

There's no indexing ridge near the light trap, and the bottom of the holder does not fold open when I remove the dark slide. The only way I can see to get film in the septum is to curl it in up near the light trap with the dark slide removed.

They are also about half an inch wider than a regular 5x7 holder, and longer, too.

Frankly, they look great, and they're in fine shape. But what do they fit? Anyone got a clue?

Not sure, but they could be for a Rochester Optical and Camera Co. camera, from one of the early incarnations of the company that eventually was purchased by Eastman and became Kodak. I have an 8x10 "Universal." Wonderful camera, but the holders are 3/4" wider and a bit longer than modern holders and have no locking ridge. I had to jury rig another back to take modern holders. I have never seen one of their 5x7 cameras, but it makes sense that they would use the same system... made sometime at the very end of the 19th century.

Is there a metal septum in it? Great Basin film holders were made with non opening ends. The film was folded and inserted into side slots or wood extensions like the "normal" wooden holders, non metal septum type. They did have a regular configuration for the top though. It does look well constructed, maybe a back that is hinged will take it.

Looks like a typical plate holder. The black film sheaths should be removable. Push the black metal towards the bottom of the holder. It is spring-loaded and once engaged, the top of the sheath should clear the wood. Load the sheath and then reverse the sheath removal operation to load the holder.

They have the "Universal" name on the side. So I expect that's the right answer. Never heard of Universal before this. If Universal got bought up that long ago, then these things must have been stored in a closet pretty well, or they're new construction for some aftermarket purpose. They look fantastic.

There is a metal septum in it, but it isn't spring loaded. I checked about that when I thought they might be like the old Graflex holders I have managed to collect by accident over the years. Those have the spring loaded septum, but these do not.

And the orientation of the septum has the stop at the bottom of the holder, so that the only way to get film into it, that I've discovered at least, is to curl it in from the top with the dark slide removed.

So, anyone got a 5x7 Universal and want to buy three awesome looking film holders?

Here's a guy looking for the Universal holders. Here and here are links about the cameras. Very nice workmanship in these.

I managed to pick up a whole-plate ROC Universal as well as Eastman #2 and Carleton whole-plate cameras in the past couple months. I thought I'd be keeping the Eastman #2 but the ROC is so light and compact, I don't think I can part with it. The Eastman seems about twice as heavy and bulky - a beast in comparison.

I'm making a couple whole-plate wetplate backs and holders for them so maybe by next week I can compare them in the field. So far, I'd echo Whitey's comments about the ROC Universal.