What is the value of Art school?

did you get an art degree?

  • AA degree

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • BA degree

    Votes: 13 61.9%

  • MA degree

    Votes: 8 38.1%
  • Total voters
    21

BradS

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I am considering enrolling in an art degree program at the local community college and I'm just kinda trying to decide what my expectations are and what they might reasonably be. I'm wondering about the non obvious benefits one gets from taking a college degree vs being self taught...

So, did you go to art school ?
In what ways did you benefit ?

Thanks in advance.
 
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  • jtk
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jtk

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Four possible benefits to school: you will meet people who care about photography (or whatever art), you will learn to appreciate imagery that's new to you, you'll likely re-focus your life. Lastly, if you want to show your work in galleries the degree will be important, even if you learn nothing.

If you care about photography (or art) you will be "self taught" for the rest of your life.

I love the Sonora area. I think very different regions would be stimulating.
 

removedacct1

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I attended the Ontario College of Art in the 1980s. I did not complete my studies at the college because I was hired at the end of my third year by one of Canada's most talented photographers of the time (Deborah Samuel). I met Deborah at OCA when she came as a guest lecturer for one semester, and it was at the end of that semester she offered to hire me (It was an opportunity not to be missed). I did half time studies at the College in the fourth year but never finished because I simply became too busy in the photography industry (mainly thanks to Deb) to continue.

What I learned from the experience:

- It didn't matter one bit that I did not finish my art education at the school. I got everything I needed from the experience.
- OCA was hands down the BEST experience of my young art career. Exposure to so many creative minds and the opportunities the College presented were invaluable.
- The experience at OCA rocketed me into a career as a photographer/artist as much through exposure to other great people as by the actual education I received: both were of immense value. The school was a powerful catalyst.

So my lesson in all that was that the education you receive is just one part of it. The opportunities you discover and the people you are exposed to will be of equal (if not greater) value. A degree/certificate was - for me - the least valuable component, and my opportunities have never been lesser for having left the school prematurely.
 
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BradS

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Thank you both for sharing your insights. They're interesting and helpful.
I'm going to stay back out of the conversation a bit (hopefully, others will also contribute) so as not to influence or bias it toward my own thoughts.
.
 

jim10219

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I have a BFA. Here's my take on it. If you want to teach or be respected as a serious artist, get an MFA. You need an MFA to teach art pretty much anywhere, and getting an MFA will help you with some connections in the art world, as well as give you a little seal of approval that will help you get into more exhibits. You don't have to have an MFA to make it as a professional artist, but it does go a long way with the crowd that has the money to pay you enough to pay your bills through art.

If you want a job doing art, a BFA is probably the best route. To most companies, the difference between a BFA and an MFA isn't important. They just want that little seal of approval that they can show to their boss that they hired the right person. They don't know jack about art, and don't know the difference between good art and bad art. But they do know the difference between a college degree and no college degree. You can, once again, get an artist job without a BFA, but unless you've won a bunch of awards or know the right people, chances are you'll be looking at jobs that don't pay much.

If you just want to learn some stuff about art, and aren't really planning on committing your career to it, then an associates degree is what you want. There will be a lot less theory and history involved. You'll be able to devote more of your time to practical methodology. Though, keep in mind, knowing the theory and history will make you a better artist. And it'll give you the skills to talk art to other art professionals. That way you can use the same terminology they do. You may know what you're talking about, but if you don't use the generally accepted terminology to describe it, you won't be taken seriously by many of these people. It's not unlike a business degree. Everyone likes to poke fun at all of the business buzzwords that keep popping up, especially from young people with business degrees. But knowing them is a way of communicating your worth to the higher ups. It's true that it's all a bunch of B.S., but it's how the world works.
 

cramej

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What do you hope to achieve by getting an art degree?

I have a BA in graphic design. I also have a MSCIS with a security emphasis and a few other IT certifications and my current job title is Business Technology Analyst. I'm in a much better place now than I would be if I stayed in the design world. There are a few exceptionally talented individuals that I graduated with who are still designers - most of the rest of us are doing something different. It was combination of a really poor job market and the recession. I was being out-experienced for the jobs that were at my level and overlooked for being overqualified for jobs below my level.

For all of us that graduated within a couple years of each other, it was the resume that got an interview, the portfolio that got the job.

There are trains of thought that I probably would not have if I didn't get the BA. I don't regret getting it, but it was hard for me to see the reality of where I was headed at the time. I have a few friends with kid either in college or just out of college and they're having a similar experience with the difficulty of finding a good job. The art world is the only place I've experienced the snobbery of "it's who you know" to the extreme. Freelance work always went to the same few people who were buddy-buddy with the big firms. If they didn't know your name, you didn't exist.
 
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BradS

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cramej said:
What do you hope to achieve by getting an art degree?
....
Click to expand...

Well, I guess this is kinda one the questions I'm trying to answer for myself.
 

cramej

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BradS said:
Well, I guess this is kinda one the questions I'm trying to answer for myself.
Click to expand...

I suppose I should rephrase the question. Are you looking for a new career, expanded art knowledge, new skills, new ways to take on debt etc.? The latter can be accomplished without a degree and to some extent, even a new career can be done without a degree.
 

jtk

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fwiw I agree with you most of the way...but I've not found "snobbery".... clients have not cared about "who you know" so much as what you've done for them and what' you've learned from them. Of course, I'm not thinking about "jobs" because I've almost always been self employed (I've avoided the term "free lance"). I'm a believer in door-pounding and reliably doing good work (getting that reputation).

"it was the resume that got an interview, the portfolio that got the job" Yes, resumes save time for the reader but they waste time for "applicants." Don't think of yourself as an "applicant." Depending on the kind of photography you want to do your "resume" will be irrelevant by comparison to the work you share. How do you get in the door? Barge in.
 

Andrew O'Neill

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Being around like minded individuals was most valuable for me. I made life long friends with fellow students and with my printmaking prof. And besides, I had to get degreed if I wanted to teach Art!
 

mark

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My youngest son is considering art school. And my oldest just auditioned for a voice performance degree.
So far the reasons we can figure out are
  1. Connections connections connections
  2. Access to different artistic instruction without the cost of say buying a printing press
  3. Like minded peers
  4. Access to the industry.
  5. Doing what you have a passion for instead of accepting drudgery.
 

removed account4

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being around armloads of creative people, having access to people (teachers, students and smart people ) and things (gear, darkroom facilities) that normally wouldn't have access to, being put out of your comfort zone to push yourself and know why you are doing what you are doing ... and being able to articulate what you are up to ... the whole networking thing, and being able to teach &c and show others the joy of photography is great too..
 
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btaylor

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I met my wife in art school and got two great kids out it, so definitely worth it for me. I learned a lot about art as well, which is one of my favorite subjects so that was a bonus. Don’t over think it!
 

Vaughn

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BradS said:
...I'm wondering about the non obvious benefits one gets from taking a college degree vs being self taught...
Click to expand...

I would consider an art program to be valid and valuable path for the self-taught. It can also be a pleasant way to spend several years for those who just wish to be taught. I got a BS in Natural Resources Mgt, but worked for a couple decades or so for an Art Department at a CA State University where I ran the photo facilities for a photo program...about 125 to 150 students per semester in our photo classes. Programs can provide access to equipment and facilities difficult for an individual to have/maintain. And access to experienced photographers -- both in the form of advanced students and of visiting artists/teachers.

Colleges just provide the opportunity to learn -- how much a student learns and benefits from a program is tied directly to the amount of work they are willing to put in to it -- and a willingness to interact with the instructors and fellow students in a positive manner. It was easy for me to know which students were turned on by photography...they kept coming back to me for advice after sending them back into the darkroom to try it lighter/darker, more/less contrast...or asking them silly questions like "What do YOU want it to look like?" or "Why did you click the shutter?" The most fun part of the job.

I am a bit shy, so as a student, I did not pull as much out of my professors as I could have, though they were good enough teachers to make sure I got enough (Tom Knight and Thomas J. Cooper). Later as the lab tech, I made an effort to connect a little with the quieter students...I was around the darkroom more often the professors, and fortunately I enjoyed answering questions, demonstrating how to use equipment, and so forth. So make sure you use us!!!

I found the students who had the roughest time and usually ended up being the most disappointed were those who came into the program to have their image of themselves validated, rather than to learn.
 

blockend

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A good art school will provide a vocabulary, visual and literary, to perceive your work and that of others. A bad art school will simply confuse you, or subject you to the unequivocal opinions of your tutors. A community college sounds like the US equivalent of a UK further education (FE) institution. Such places generally do more good than harm, limiting themselves to exposing the student to interesting work, and a commentary on your own output, without the polemical aspect of many degree programmes.
 

Valerie

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Community college can provide a great education very affordably. In school you will find networking that you might not get otherwise, introduction to art and artists you never knew existed, a ready answer to basic questions (and access to resources for those not easily answered), being pushed in ways you would not have considered on your own, and a community of like-minded folks. Try a semester and see what happens.
 
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BradS

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Thank you everybody for all of these replies. I am glad that many of you have mentioned some of the things that I had kinda assumed and am hoping might be among the non-obvious benefits. This is something that I'd really like to do...and now, I'm only hesitating because the fall semester overlaps with backpacking season in the Sierra Nevada.
 

Jim Jones

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After maybe 22 years of working in electronics and dabbling in photography, I retired and studied for a BA in art. College has the advantage of structured training, a good library, and other facilities. It also has the disadvantage of required courses that are of little interest or use. At that time, 1972-1975, even a good college could be fairly affordable. Tuition was $700 a semester. That has far outstripped the rising cost of living since then. College provided exposure to unfamiliar art forms, but could teach me little about photography that I had not learned on my own. Some people benefit greatly from the guidance that higher education provides. Some of us with experience in problem solving can find other ways to learn what we need For those, the internet is a treasure. This site is a good example of that.
 

jim10219

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If you're looking for monetary value in a college degree, study engineering or computer programming. If you're willing to spend the effort for a post-grad degree, look at medicine or law. Typically, most degrees don't pay you well by themselves. The world still runs on "who you know, not what you know". And really the only thing most degrees are good for is giving you one extra qualification that may help you stand out over the competition.

There is some value in the experience of college itself, outside of the degree. For someone like me, it opened up my mind to new possibilities and ways of thinking about things. It changed who I am as a person. I learned that the world isn't binary, that perspectives differ with circumstances, and how to pose a convincing argument without being rigid in your own opinions. I learned how to critique diplomatically and take criticism gracefully, and use it as a learning tool, rather than react to it as a personal attack. Basically, I learned how to grow as a person and become more self actualized, and less self centered. That doesn't have anything to do with a degree, but I doubt I would have achieved all of that without being exposed to that environment. Of course, not everyone learns such things. It's up to the student to learn, not the teacher to teach.

Art degrees get a bad rap for being useless. Truth be told, most degrees are on their own, outside of the ones I mentioned above. Even some of the more difficult bachelors degrees, like ones in chemistry or physics, are pretty useless without further education or specialized job experience. I have an art degree and a mathematics degree. The art degree has proven more valuable to me, financially speaking. The only real value of my Bmath is prop up my BFA and tell people "Yeah I'm an artist, but I'm also smart", which is a totally ridiculous statement considering how hard art is. But non-art people feel more assured by that math degree. It's something they can comprehend easier than the value and difficulty of art.
 

btaylor

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A plug for Community Colleges: many of the professors work part time at the CC because it is a great second job, their first job is at a major university. A film prof I had at CC also taught at USC and Art Center- two of the most prestigious and expensive schools anywhere. This is not unusual. I grew up in a college town, many of the professors at the big university had second gigs at the local CC’s.
In terms of value, the monetary returns have been non existent from my art degree. But in a larger sense my experience in art school became a defining part of how I view my world- in a word: priceless. YMMV
 

mark

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@Vaughn has a good point. Go with an open mind and willingness to learn. When I TAed in a college darkroom the younger folks were much easier to work with than the older folks who "had been doing this for years." and had their own way of doing things, and were set in the their ways. They struggled with assignments more than the younger ones because they were not open to stretching their thinking. I think they just wanted free darkroom time but the prof was very adamant about assignment printing comes first. Turn assignment in, then print your own stuff. The prof was more than happy to critique and discuss whatever came out of the darkroom if the assignment was done. In my 2 semesters most of the older folks dropped.
 

VinceInMT

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The "value" of anything is determined my the individual and what it is worth to them.

As for art school, as others have said, it depends on what your goals are. It can be a means to career paths that require it, it can provide training is specific media, it can provide access to a network, etc.

For me, my college education (2 associate degrees, 1 bachelors, and 1 masters) were all job-related. I was a high school industrial arts teacher before I retired. After retirement I wanted to expand my horizons and challenge my aging brain and enrolled in a BFA program at the local university. While being self-taught in photography from the early 70s, and still working in film, I have now been exposed to other media and lots of history, visual theory, and criticism. I highly recommend this type of endeavor.

College can be expensive, as previously mentioned, but here in Montana, any resident 65-years old and older receives a 100% tuition waiver at all state schools, only paying the fees. My school also waived all the general ed requirements so I only take the art classes and, going part-time, I can graduate after 9 years for a cost of about $7,200. It would be less if I doubled up on classes but I am in no hurry. Plus, not only does it give me access to all the facilities, I am doing a study abroad with 11 other students in May when we travel to Sydney, Australia for the Sydney Biennale. The cost of the class, which excludes transportation there, but does include lodging, many of the meals, in-country transportation, entry into a variety of events, etc. is about $1,300. Going back to school is, for me, a real no-brainer.
 

Ian Grant

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A lot depends on the department you're studying in, the facilities, the quality of the lecturers & Professor and the structure and syllabus of the courses offered.

At BA level you'd have more emphasis on on the technical side and be taught practical skills, at MA level emphasis is more on personal development and learning to contextualise your own work and you won't get on a course unless you have the technical skills and ability.

Ian
 

Rob Skeoch

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I worked at a newspaper for a couple years as a photographer but realized I was mostly bullshitting my way through so quit the good job and went to Sheraton College in Oakville 40 years ago. Second best decision I've made.
Then I worked for 30 plus years as a photographer, mostly shooting NFL and MLB but a bit of true photojournalism as well. Got published everywhere.
Then I went back and got my MFA, just to get it. Best decision I've made.
Learned so much, and I thought I already new everything.
The photographers I've known that where self taught have great skill and knowledge but usually in a narrow genre of photography.
Going to school gives you a broader understanding as you learn about things that you would never look into if self taught.
 
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