What is the quickest way to focus with movements?

I was out practicing today with front tilt. My camera tilts at center axis on the front standard. Is it best to focus at the center of the image, then tilt, then refocus? Then repeat until everything is in focus?

I was having difficulty getting everything I wanted in focus, but probably because I am focusing with the aperture wide open (of course).

My method -- with no tilt, I focus about a third of the way into the scene that I wish to have in focus. I then tilt the front until I get near and far in focus...or as close as I can.

Looking at the image on the GG, I then reduce the aperture, watching my near and far points. If they both come into focus at the same time, I know I have the focus set in the right place. If not, I adjust the focus until they do. This also tells me my largest aperture I can use for the DoF I want.

Another good method. Focus on the near and the far points. Note where the standards are for each of those points and place them halfway between those positions. Then tilt.

I tilt first and then focus, I often work hand held with a Super Graphic and find it quick and easy, however that's based on well over 40 years shooting LF and by now tilts etc are intuitive

None of my current cameras have centre axis tilt, you need to fucus around 1/3 the way into the image as DOF when stopped downwill help the back 2/3 more than the front 1/3 of the area you want sharp.

Ian

Okay, thank you both. That helps a lot.

I sure do have a hard time seeing when I stop down, even in bright sunlight.

Focusing can be done with front or rear standard. Front affects plane of focus, rear affects shape of some objects. Both work together to achieve desired focus and projection.

Scheimpflug principle runs the LF focusing show and I would not go beyond saying anything else, but to study that. There is so much out there written on it, and YT videos to boot.

With some practice the 3 planes Sheimpfulg mentions can be well observed from side of a set up LF camera, a method I often use to quickly get tilts in a ball park. After that is ground glass, loupe, and more adjustments to get it close. Start with simple stuff, get used to loupe on the ground glass and getting straight shot with no movements sharp. Then start moving one standard at a time to see how things change and how moving each standard affects GG view and sharpness.

To expand slightly, think of rise/fall and lateral shift as means to reposition projection on GG (move objects for composition), think of tilts and swings as means to alter plane of focus and back swing tilts as means to alter shape of objects projected onto GG.

It all sounds complex and from geometrical perspective it is, as compound angles play out with complicated variety of movements in one go. Hence it is critical to take it one slow step at a time. Then it will all fall in. It gets easier with every next beer too.

My Cambo has centre tilt too- I found this video (Fred Newman on YouTube) to be really useful.

Keep in mind you can practice at home, set up a still on a table with some objects of interest, well lit up, so you will have no issues seeing it well on GG.

Witold said:

It gets easier with every next beer too.

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Haha! That's what I'm doing wrong - practicing too early in the day!

One more question - I have heard of some using reading glasses in lieu of a loupe. Do you guys ever do that? What strength reading glasses is good for working at that distance from the ground glass?

Ariston said:

One more question - I have heard of some using reading glasses in lieu of a loupe. Do you guys ever do that? What strength reading glasses is good for working at that distance from the ground glass?

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Personally, I haven't found reading glasses to be accurate enough and always end up using the loupe instead (sometimes with my reading glasses - but that might say more about my eyesight than anything else!).

Ariston said:

One more question - I have heard of some using reading glasses in lieu of a loupe. Do you guys ever do that? What strength reading glasses is good for working at that distance from the ground glass?

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My Wista has a combination screen, my Super Graphic a fresnel, loupes are less useful unless you have a plain GG screen, I need reading glasses anyway and even before needing them realised that focussing is a matter of snapping in and out, by that I mean you pass though the sharpest focus and then adjust back.

When I work hand heldwith 5x4 I usually have to work very fast, dodging the tourists in very busy archaeological sites, there's definitely a knack to quick focussing, just like there's a knack for knowing exactly how much tilt to use instincively, ansd the other one is instictively being in the right position along with lens choice.

Ian

Ariston said:

Okay, thank you both. That helps a lot. I sure do have a hard time seeing when I stop down, even in bright sunlight.

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Something that might help at smaller apertures...keep one's eye on the same path as the light coming from the lens...much brighter.
I am blessed with terrible eyesight (near-sighted), which means I can easily work with the GG without glasses or loupe. A terror on the highway without glasses, though.

vickersdc said:

My Cambo has centre tilt too- I found this video (Fred Newman on YouTube) to be really useful.

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I had a Cambo (Calumet) Cadet for a few years, I only ever used it for one long weekend in Cornwall on a trip back to the UK while living abroad, I sold it for just over what I paid for it and I threw in a lens and one DDS. Thinking back I don't remember the Axial tilts being a major advantage.

Ian

Here's my method. It's basically what you describe in your first post.

With axis tilts, I find it easier to focus on a point/object in the scene that both a) lies in your desired plane of sharp focus (that assumes you've determined where that plane should lie and picked a few points to focus on along it) and b) is on the axis of the tilt, i.e., on that horizontal center line on your ground glass that the tilt revolves around.

Then, I tilt till the other points/objects on my desired plane of sharp focus come into sharp focus. The point on the tilt axis should not change focus, theoretically, but on some cameras it does, so you may have to revisit your original point of sharp focus, refocus that and check the other points again, tweaking tilt a bit if needed. When everything is in acceptable focus, then you're done.

The important thing with this method is to visualize the exact position of the plane of sharp focus in the scene and then choose points on it to focus on. Example - A landscape with a near short boulder, and expanse of desert sand with a few rocks and trees/cacti sticking up, and then a dune rising in the distance. I'd pick a point on the center of the near boulder and on the center of the slope of the dune to define my plane of sharp focus, then find a point on a tree or rock or whatever in the middle of the scene that lies in that same plane and that lies on the tilt axis on the ground glass. I'd focus on that middle point, then tilt till my near and far points are all in focus too. If all goes well, the actual focusing and tilting takes just a few seconds and fine tuning with the loupe a few seconds more; much less time than it takes to describe

FWIW, I use +3.50 diopter reading glasses for viewing and rough focusing, but fine tune focus with a 6x loupe.

Swings are dealt with in essentially the same manner, just transposed 90°. Asymmetrical tilts and swings work the same way, only the tilt/swing axes are offset from center; one finds an initial point to focus on that falls on the appropriate axis.

Base tilts are a different can of worms; fodder for a different thread.

Best,

Doremus

Ariston said:

I was out practicing today with front tilt. My camera tilts at center axis on the front standard. Is it best to focus at the center of the image, then tilt, then refocus? Then repeat until everything is in focus?
I was having difficulty getting everything I wanted in focus, but probably because I am focusing with the aperture wide open (of course).

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To what posted, let me add that some cameras have an aid to adjust focus-tilt conveniently...

Some cameras (some Linhof cameras, for example) allow to vary the position the tilt's axis....

Tilt axis in the base ? center axis tilt ? What if you can vary the height of the tilt's axis ?

It that case you move the axis to the place you want the focus don't move while you tilt.

This is a luxurious refinenement that's not necessary but it may help. I only wanted to point that focus-tilt interaction has always been a concern and that some (not cheapest) designs implemented a convenient solution for that.

________________

Usually with my Norma, I correct extension to keep focus in some place while slowly (base) tilting to get focus in the other reference point.

Then I make iterations refine_extension vs refine_tilt until both reference points are in focus.

On my Technika III I added a few helpers.

Conviently, the back of the camera is 16x16cm. I added a 4x4cm and a 8x8cm square on the ground glass and marked them 4x and 2x respectively. There is also a centimeter grid, so that would not be necessary, but it helps remembering. I also put a millimeter scale (and a DoF scale) on the removable distance scale. Now for swings or tilts:

1. I focus on one edge of a square
2. I zero the scale on the bed
3. Focus on the other edge
4. Read the scale and multiply that by 2 or 4, depending on the square I used
5. Pull the back out on one side by that much (I use the distance scale from the front for that)
6. Refocus

That is pretty much how the swing/tilt indicator on the SINAR F does it, without calculating an angle or the convenient drum of course, and it only works for back movements. Like on the SINAR, you have to find something on the lines to focus on, but I can use a smaller square (with smaller precision of course) if I want to or use an imaginary one anywhere in the frame. I also check and fine tune afterwards, but it is a fast and easy way to get to 90%.

A big help Thanks

This has been a very useful thread that I have saved for a future reference.