What is the best? brands of chemicals, film and paper

hanaa · Mar 10, 2006

Im purchasing chemicals, bulk film and paper for the first time and i'm having a hard time choosing. What brands are better? can you mix and match brands? (i.e. kodak film with Ilford developer? or Ilford paper with kodak chem.?) I'm only familiar with Ilford brand... but is that a good brand? I don't know. please help! Any feedback is helpful. Thank YOU!!!

david b · Mar 10, 2006

There is no such thing as the best as the materials are subject to preferences.

Why are you buying in bulk?

Ole · Mar 10, 2006

There is no "best".

All the products are different - sometimes very different, sometimes almost identical. They all have their strong sides and their not-so-strong sides.

Yes, you can "mix and match".

Ilford is good - stick to that if you're happy with it. I use just about everything including "home brew", but use only Ilford if the end result is really, really important. Not because the others are no good, only because I know exactly how to get exactly the results I want with Ilford.

hanaa · Mar 10, 2006

just buying bulk b&w film... i got a film loader and cartridges a while back. figured i'd use them. i just want to make sure of the brands? so many to choose. my concern is mixing and matching chem with the paper and film... should i just keep one brand for everything?

Bob F. · Mar 10, 2006

Yes, you can happily mix and match film/developer/paper. Yes, of course Ilford is a quality player - arguably the best in B&W...

General suggestions follow: free of charge and hence worth every penny you pay...

If you are used to Ilford then you may as well stick with them. FP4+ and HP5+ developed in ID-11 1+1 if you are happy mixing powdered developer or Ilfosol-S if you prefer a liquid concentrate. Both films are available in bulk rolls (in the UK - not sure about US).

Use Ilford Multigrade IV RC paper for starters.

Paper developer: use practically any. I'd suggest Ilford Multigrade developer as it is a liquid so easy to mix to working strength but there may be cheaper or more readily available ones where you live. If you want a cheaper alternative, Kodak Dektol in powder form seems to be a favorite in the US (not used much here in the UK).

All the above are low(ish) cost, high quality, general-purpose options, making a good result easier to obtain than using more temperamental materials (especially if you stick to liquid concentrate developers).

Have fun, Bob.

TheFlyingCamera · Mar 10, 2006

No. As has been said before, there is absolutely no requirement whatsoever to keep to one brand. Unlike automotive parts, brand names are not nearly as significant. Film, paper, and processing chemicals work on universal principles that cannot be made proprietary to one brand - if a film developer works on brand X film, it will work in the exact same way on brand K as brand I as brand F film. The same is true for enlarging paper and paper developers. Pick the film, film developer, paper and paper developers you use based on their performance characteristics, irrespective of brand name.

Of course, the sales people from company X will tell you that to get best results, you should use their particular line of chemicals with their films. You will certainly get predictable results if you follow their directions for using a particular film at a particular speed with a particular chemistry for their specified time at their specified temperature, but you will quickly find that what a manufacturer recommends and what is needed to give you a result that is pleasing to you are usually quite different.

You will eventually learn through doing, and from seeing the results that other people get from what they are using how to change what you are doing to get a result that is more pleasing to you.

mtnbkr · Mar 10, 2006

I'm just getting (re)started myself, so I can't offer you any advice based on real experience. That said, I would pick a combination that looks good to you and has been used successfully by others in the past. THEN, use it for as long as it takes you to learn the processes and learn the materials.

For me, this is Tri-X developed in D-76, printed on Ilford Multigrade paper, which is developed in Ethol LPD. I picked Tri-X because I like what I've seen in prints, that it's ubiquitous, and inexpensive. I picked D-76 because of it's availabilty and suitability to Tri-X for most uses. I chose Ilford Multigrade paper because I like the sample prints I've seen at the local shop. I'm going to use Ethol LPD to develop my prints because I like what I've read about it. Barring any problems, I'm going to stick with those materials until I've developed a feel for the process and how the materials themselves react. When I can reasonably predict the outcome of a particular shot, I'll move on to different films, developers, paper, etc. Or not...

Chris

Gerald Koch · Mar 10, 2006

If you're not familiar with the films available now I wouldn't rush out to buy in bulk. What if you decide you really don't like your choice, then you're stuck with 100 ft of it. First try several 24 exp rolls, different brands, different speeds. Then concentrate on becoming familiar with your choice. Then buy in bulk.

MattKing · Mar 10, 2006

There is some advantage to starting with some of the bigger players. There is a lot of information available on the internet for both Kodak and Ilford. Both manufacturers maintain very comprehensive websites.

Personally, I have a loyalty to Kodak which is both easily explained, and fairly subjective, but they aren't making B & W paper anymore, so my recent purchases include a box of Ilford.

If you start out with something like Tri-X and D76, or HP5 and ID11, or some combination of same, you know that you are trying something that has worked well for many people, and that you can rely upon for consistency while your skills and knowledge improve.

Most important, have fun.

craigclu · Mar 10, 2006

I think that a beginning B&W photographer should start with materials that are well known, affordable, predictable and somewhat universal for the sake of leaning on a knowledge base for assistance. Tri-X, Neopan 400 or HP5+ are great faster films and FP4+ or Plus-X are great medium speed films. Start with D-76 1:1 (ID-11 is essentially the same, too). Virtually any photographer you will deal with will have some experience with these developers. If you like the ease of a concentrate, you might consider FG7... I always found the look somewhat similar to D76 and it is very forgiving and long-lived when stored correctly. Any of the above combos will give you an excellent refernece point and may very well serve your needs forever (as many fine photographers have found to be true).

If you were a student of mine, a relative or sitting at my house chatting about these things, I'd be promoting the use of Photographers' Formulary's TF-4 fixer. You could avoid a stop bath and hypo clearing agent that way and have good results with little fuss. Whatever you decide, learn to proceed with good repeatable techniques. Learn good habits from the start, be scrupulous about cleanliness, good records, temperature controls and consistent agitation routines, etc. There are just too many variables by the nature of the medium that if you add in some careless habits, you'll soon grow frustrated and greatly diminish the enjoyment of the hobby. Pay your dues by adherence to the basics and in developing a basic competence. Welcome to the addiction!

roteague · Mar 10, 2006

Velvia and E6.

Whoops!!! Wrong forum.

craigclu · Mar 10, 2006

I think that a beginning B&W photographer should start with materials that are well known, affordable, predictable and somewhat universal for the sake of leaning on a knowledge base for assistance. Tri-X, Neopan 400 or HP5+ are great faster films and FP4+ or Plus-X are great medium speed films. Start with D-76 1:1 (ID-11 is essentially the same, too). Virtually any photographer you will deal with will have some experience with these developers. If you like the ease of a concentrate, you might consider FG7... I always found the look somewhat similar to D76 and it is very forgiving and long-lived when stored correctly. Any of the above combos will give you an excellent reference point and may very well serve your needs forever (as many fine photographers have found to be true).

If you were a student of mine, a relative or sitting at my house chatting about these things, I'd be promoting the use of Photographers' Formulary's TF-4 fixer. You could avoid a stop bath and hypo clearing agent that way and have good results with little fuss. Whatever you decide, learn to proceed with good repeatable techniques. Learn good habits from the start, be scrupulous about cleanliness, good records, temperature controls and consistent agitation routines, etc. There are just too many variables by the nature of the medium that if you add in some careless habits, you'll soon grow frustrated and greatly diminish the enjoyment of the hobby. Pay your dues by adherence to the basics and in developing a basic competence. Welcome to the addiction!

gnashings · Mar 10, 2006

Gerald Koch said:
If you're not familiar with the films available now I wouldn't rush out to buy in bulk. What if you decide you really don't like your choice, then you're stuck with 100 ft of it. First try several 24 exp rolls, different brands, different speeds. Then concentrate on becoming familiar with your choice. Then buy in bulk.

I think you should really take the above bit of advice to heart. B&W photography is a very subjective area - like has been mentioned, there is little in terms of quality that the majour players give up to each other, and yes mixng and matching is perfectly ok. But, I for example, absolutely hate Kodak Tmax films. Are they bad products? Hell no! They are excellent products by all standards - but I just happen to really not like them. If I had a 100 foot roll I would really be annoyed, and then my photography would suffer because I would not be as motivated to go out and shoot, instead having the "aw.. I have to get through this film first..." attitude. I think you will soon find the combinations you like to work with - both for the results and ease of use for you - then go ahead and stock up

srs5694 · Mar 11, 2006

gnashings said:
I for example, absolutely hate Kodak Tmax films. Are they bad products? Hell no! They are excellent products by all standards - but I just happen to really not like them. If I had a 100 foot roll I would really be annoyed, and then my photography would suffer because I would not be as motivated to go out and shoot, instead having the "aw.. I have to get through this film first..." attitude. I think you will soon find the combinations you like to work with - both for the results and ease of use for you - then go ahead and stock up

This is true; however, a beginner shouldn't go to the other extreme, either -- that is, it's best to stick with just a couple of films (one fast and one slow) when starting out. Trying everything in sight to find the one that's best can lead a beginner in the darkroom to get a very poor feel for how things work, because the constant changes in film will make it hard to fine-tune development times and otherwise learn about the effects of important variables. Furthermore, if you try a bunch of films, the starting point development times are likely to result in different densities from one roll to the next. Thus, you can't really be sure that what you like about the film you choose really is the film, as opposed to the development time. These different densities will also require different paper grades and exposures when printing, which will complicate learning to print. Finally, to a beginner, the differences between different films are likely to seem pretty small compared to other factors, such as contrast and exposure when making prints. It's going to take a while to get decent control of such things, and only then will the differences between films become apparent.

Overall, then, I'd say a beginner should go ahead and buy several rolls of whatever film seems good based on price, availability, or the recommendation of friends. Perhaps an entire bulk roll would be too much, though; I think most people will begin to appreciate film-specific factors well before getting to the end of a bulk roll, and if a film is a bad match to the photographer's needs, the issues you mention will then become important.

gnashings · Mar 11, 2006

srs5694 said:
This is true; however, a beginner shouldn't go to the other extreme, either -- that is, it's best to stick with just a couple of films (one fast and one slow) when starting out. Trying everything in sight to find the one that's best can lead a beginner in the darkroom to get a very poor feel for how things work, because the constant changes in film will make it hard to fine-tune development times and otherwise learn about the effects of important variables. Furthermore, if you try a bunch of films, the starting point development times are likely to result in different densities from one roll to the next. Thus, you can't really be sure that what you like about the film you choose really is the film, as opposed to the development time. These different densities will also require different paper grades and exposures when printing, which will complicate learning to print. Finally, to a beginner, the differences between different films are likely to seem pretty small compared to other factors, such as contrast and exposure when making prints. It's going to take a while to get decent control of such things, and only then will the differences between films become apparent.

Overall, then, I'd say a beginner should go ahead and buy several rolls of whatever film seems good based on price, availability, or the recommendation of friends. Perhaps an entire bulk roll would be too much, though; I think most people will begin to appreciate film-specific factors well before getting to the end of a bulk roll, and if a film is a bad match to the photographer's needs, the issues you mention will then become important.

Guilty as charged!
I for one have a tendency not leave well enough alone, either... so this is a bit of advice I certainly should take to heart... but you know, I think I'd need therapy to get there... that would cost money I could spend on stuff I don't really need - I am such a basket case!

srs5694 · Mar 11, 2006

Don't get me wrong -- there's nothing wrong with experimenting. I'm just advising beginners not to try too many different films too quickly, lest the learning process become too difficult. Once you've got the basics down, by all means, try different films.

vet173 · Mar 11, 2006

Best B&W roll film- verichrome pan. Best 35mm film agfa supperpan. Best sheet film supper-xx. Best paper haloid contact paper. Now go find a time machine.

What is the best? brands of chemicals, film and paper

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