What is Semi-Stand Development?

Flotsam · Apr 9, 2005

I understand regular agitation and think that I understand Stand development but what qualifies as Semi-Stand? I assume that it falls somewhere in between the two but is there a specific methodology to it?

Mongo · Apr 9, 2005

I doubt that there's a definitive answer to your question. Semi-stand seems to be a phrase adopted by those of us who do extremely minimal agitation development. The problem is, there's no easy way to quantify the amount of agitation that would differentiate semi-stand from normal or stand development. A couple of cases in point:

I developed a 120 roll of J&C Pro 100 in Rodinal 1:200 for 90 minutes, with three minutes initial agitation and 1 minute agitation at 30 minutes. (Beautiful negatives, by the way.) Is this stand or semi-stand?

I developed a 120 roll of Efke 100 in Pyrocat-HD 1:1:100 for fifteen minutes with 10 seconds agitation every 5 minutes. Is this semi-stand, or just a greatly reduced normal agitation?

It really is a semantic thing, as there are no hard-and-fast rules (at least none that I've ever seen used consistantly) that define the dividing line between these agitation schedules. In my cases I'd refer to the first as "stand" and the second as "normal with reduced agitation", but someone else using the same agitation schemes might call them both "semi-stand". This is why I feel it's best to always include your agitation schedules when you describe development procedures. Even "normal" means 5 sec. every 30 to some and 10 sec. every 60 to others.

djklmnop · Apr 9, 2005

Developing your negatives while standing up, with one leg.

c6h6o3 · Apr 9, 2005

Flotsam said:
I understand regular agitation and think that I understand Stand development but what qualifies as Semi-Stand? I assume that it falls somewhere in between the two but is there a specific methodology to it?

There is a very comprehensive discussion of this technique on the Azo Forum. Do searches on the phrases "semi-stand" and "minimal agitation". Sandy King lists times and even some density readings, I believe, for many common films. It's done one sheet at a time in tubes.

Donald Miller · Apr 9, 2005

I use a minimal agitation (semi stand) procedure. My procedure is as follows:

1. Five minute water presoak

2. Using Pyrocat at 1-1-150 dilution, I agitate in tube for three minutes.

3. Allow film to stand upright in tube filled with developer for 1/3 of total development time and agitate at ten seconds at each 1/3 of total development time.

4. Follow with stop bath at three times normal dilution to prevent pinholes in film.

5. Follow with fix in rapid fixer.

6. Wash film

The benefits, as I see them, are enhanced sharpness through edge effects.

rbarker · Apr 9, 2005

djklmnop said:
Developing your negatives while standing up, with one leg.

Nah, I'd say it's developing while "perched" on a bar stool with your feet still on the floor.

photomc · Apr 9, 2005

rbarker said:
Nah, I'd say it's developing while "perched" on a bar stool with your feet still on the floor.

closer...it's more like half sitting on a bar stool while leaning on the sink....best place to try this is a bar..after a few drinks...late at night...what were we talking about?

Donald's response is what I do...

Donald Qualls · Apr 9, 2005

What I've heard as the definition of "semi stand" is that, instead of just leaving the film completely alone for the entire time after the first minute of continuous agitation, you agitate for the first minute, then one cycle (typically 10-15 seconds, say 5 inversions) halfway through the allotted time.

In my limited experience, this can make the difference between strong and minor edge effects, without affecting compensation much.

sanking · Apr 9, 2005

Donald Qualls said:
What I've heard as the definition of "semi stand" is that, instead of just leaving the film completely alone for the entire time after the first minute of continuous agitation, you agitate for the first minute, then one cycle (typically 10-15 seconds, say 5 inversions) halfway through the allotted time.

In my limited experience, this can make the difference between strong and minor edge effects, without affecting compensation much.

What Donald has stated is how I also describe semi-stand development. I distinguish between various forms of agitation as follows.

1. Normal agitation. Agitation for the first 1.5 minutes and then thereafter for 10 seconds every 30-60 seconds.

2. Minimal agitation. Agitation for the first 1.5 minutes and thereafter for ten seconds every two or three minutes.

3. Extreme Minimal. Agitation for the first 1.5 minutes and thereafter for ten seconds at the beginning of the second, third and final period of development.

4. Semi-Stand. Agitation for the first 1.5 minutes and thereafter only once for 10 seconds at the half point of total development time.

5. Stand. Agitation for the first 1.5 minutes of development and thereafter no more.

These descriptions are my own as previously described on the AZO Forum. They are of course somewhat arbitrary. Feel free to use them, or not use them, as you like.

Sandy

panchromatic · Apr 9, 2005

Is there guide lines for stand development? Is the a stand development massive data sheet? I'm interested in testing, and I assume that there would be a large amount of experimenting involved but some basic guidelines would be nice.

k_jupiter · Apr 10, 2005

panchromatic said:
Is there guide lines for stand development? Is the a stand development massive data sheet? I'm interested in testing, and I assume that there would be a large amount of experimenting involved but some basic guidelines would be nice.

I'll take a stand on this one...

NO. It's something you work out for yourself. My experience is with PanF shot normally in the bright California sun, Rodinal 1+200 agitated for the first 30 seconds, stand developed for the next 90 minutes. It gives a very 'graphic' look to the film with no blown highlights, but lacking in most classical midtones.

Test, test, test.

tim in san jose

George Papantoniou · Apr 10, 2005

You can use the standard dev. time with a film-soup combination and multiply it by the sqare root of two (=1.41) to get a starting point for a stand development time.
For example, if the normal development time for FP4 in Rodinal 1+100 was 9 minutes, for stand development with the same film and chemical you should start your tests with (9x1.41=) 12.69 = 12.5 minutes.
Of course, keep in mind that depending on the type of chemical and dilution you use there will be variations of the necessary stand development time, sometimes smaller and sometimes bigger...

Claire Senft · Apr 10, 2005

I also use semi-stand development. I use Pyrocat HD for semi-stand development. I realize that Mr king is the father of this devleoper and knows far more than I ever will about it and its usage. I have followed his regimen for semi-stand development as indicated on his unblinkeye website. If you have never visited Mr. King's website, I believe that you will find it to be a real treat.

Different photographers have different preferences when it comes to developers. I place more value, even though I work in 35mm, on sharpness rather than on the finess of grain. I normally make 6 1/2x 9 3/4 inch enlargements. This is a very economical easy to use developer that provides, in my opinion, the nicest possible results. It works well with normal, semii-stand and stand development. It never fails to delight me.

mark · Apr 10, 2005

I thought Ed Buffalo(SP) was the owner of unblinking eye.

Claire Senft · Apr 10, 2005

Maybe you are right

You know Mark, I am guilty of making an assumption. Maybe Mr. King is not the owner. Mr. Buffaloe, If you are the owner may I tender my apology and congratulate you on your site.

Whatever the truth of the matter, I have not changed my opinion of neither the website nor Pyrocat HD.

sanking · Apr 10, 2005

Yes, the creator and owner of www.unblinkingeye.com is Ed Buffaloe. I just happen to have a few articles there, including one on pyro developers.

In response to an earlier poster who asked if there are any guide lines for stand development or if there is a stand development massive data sheet the answer is none that I know of. I can, however recommend some experimental times for the procedures that I call minimal and extreme-minimal agitation with Pyrocat-HD. These times are based interpolation of test data using different methods of agitation.

Minimal agitation Assuming that you use Pyrocat-HD and find that a time of 12 minutes at the 1:1:100 dilution with normal agitation gives the desired contrast. For minimal agitation multiply this time by 1.35.

Extreme Minimal Instead of a dilution of 1:1:100 use 1.5:1:200 and multiply the time by about 4X.

Semi-Stand Use 1.5:1:200 dilution and multiply the time by about 6X.

See my previous message for definition of minimal, extreme minimal and semi-stand agitation.

Sandy King

What is Semi-Stand Development?

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