What is going on with Kodak's developers?

Trey · Sep 9, 2019

HC-110 reformulation, looks like X-Tol has had some changes based on the new packaging (admittedly I didn't look very closely), and now D76 is being reformulated too???

Does anyone know why these would be changing? Seems very sudden.

pentaxuser · Sep 9, 2019

Trey said:
HC-110 reformulation, looks like X-Tol has had some changes based on the new packaging (admittedly I didn't look very closely), and now D76 is being reformulated too???

Does anyone know why these would be changing? Seems very sudden.

Can you expand on the Xtol changes and D76 ones for those of us( well me certainly) for whom this is news?

Thanks

pentaxuser

Rudeofus · Sep 9, 2019

For quite a while, these chems were not made by Kodak themselves, but by Tetenal. The latter company filed for bankruptcy last winter, and after some heavy rearrangements the photochemistry part of Tetenal emerges as new company. It looks like they had to streamline some production processes to become profitable again, and this means, that some products have to change. Expect more products to change, since old Tetenal made chems not only for Kodak.

Arklatexian · Sep 9, 2019

Rudeofus said:
For quite a while, these chems were not made by Kodak themselves, but by Tetenal. The latter company filed for bankruptcy last winter, and after some heavy rearrangements the photochemistry part of Tetenal emerges as new company. It looks like they had to streamline some production processes to become profitable again, and this means, that some products have to change. Expect more products to change, since old Tetenal made chems not only for Kodak.

Regarding D76, if I want to "mix-my-own, (which I have printed formulas and chemicals for) how close are they to the old Kodak formulas? May we expect the new Tetenal formulas to be close enough to make this unnecessary? Was that question unnecessary? How about Photographer's Formulary? Thank you for the information........Regards!

mshchem · Sep 9, 2019

I suspect if you want to see how the "new XTOL " works try this. Just a guess.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/758649-REG/Ecopro_747716_LegacyPro_Ascorbic_Acid_Powder.html

MattKing · Sep 9, 2019

Kodak Alaris has issued a list of revised catalogue numbers for a large proportion of its black and white product list, which indicates some positive revisions to their minimum order requirements.
They have also listed updated MSDS info for a large proportion of their chemical line - including colour products.
The Kodak Alaris website indicates changes in the formulas for T-Max Developer and HC-110 Developer, but no changes for X-Tol, or PolyMax T developer.
That page doesn't indicate anything about all the rest of the chemicals, but it does list new catalogue numbers for them - save for T-Max RS developer, which sadly appears to be discontinued..
For a small portion of the products, we have some information about the newer 2019 versions. That information hints that they may have stopped contracting for manufacture with Tetenal or its successor in Germany and have begun contracting with a US manufacturer.
I expect that the Kodak Alaris website update is lagging the availability of the new packaging.

mshchem · Sep 9, 2019

I hope nothing bad happens to Tetenal. The product that Tetenal makes for Alaris is outstanding.

drpsilver · Sep 10, 2019

Arklatexian said:
Regarding D76, if I want to "mix-my-own, (which I have printed formulas and chemicals for) how close are they to the old Kodak formulas? May we expect the new Tetenal formulas to be close enough to make this unnecessary? Was that question unnecessary? How about Photographer's Formulary? Thank you for the information........Regards!

09 Sept 2019

Arklatexian:

I have been mixing my own D76 for years and find no difference with that produced by Kodak/Tetenal,to date, with the exception that my "home-brew" D76 does not have the shelf-life of the Kodak formulation. For this reason I make-up only enough developer for the number of processing runs necessary for the films being developed.

Regards,
Darwin

mshchem · Sep 10, 2019

One really important change, as Matt mentions, KA has reduced the number of packages per case by half. This will really help retail shops to stock chemicals. Much less inventory costs, better turn over to keep fresh.

AgX · Sep 10, 2019

Rudeofus said:
The latter company filed for bankruptcy last winter, and after some heavy rearrangements the photochemistry part of Tetenal emerges as new company.

If you look at their portfolio you see that they crimped-in their photochemical range drastically.

Missing under their Tetenal branded products are all products for minilabs, all products for X-ray photography.
Obviously they restrict them now to amateur darkrooms. With the exception of 4 products also offered in 5L containers, seemingly aimed at darkrooms with higher troughput.

You see this too at their marketing which changed completely from old-school to influencer.

About the missing products now being in toll-production one can only speculate. We should not overlook that the insolvency period with its unlikely good outcome may have many customers look for new suppliers.

pentaxuser · Sep 10, 2019

So as things stand it may be only packaging changes to Xtol and D76 but it appears that nobody here knows or if they know is yet to describe what the actual changes are in terms of the "essence" of Xtol and D76.

pentaxuser

Nodda Duma · Sep 10, 2019

Bet a beer that as soon as they caught wind of the bankruptcy, Alaris began working to change their supplier of those developers from Tetenal to Legacy Pro. Now we’re seeing the outcome of that change.

Trey · Sep 11, 2019

pentaxuser said:
Can you expand on the Xtol changes and D76 ones for those of us( well me certainly) for whom this is news?

Thanks

pentaxuser

D76 is my available anywhere. I think I saw on B&H’s website it’s being reformulated.

X-Tol is now in these packets that look like they were put together in someone’s kitchen.

timmct · Sep 11, 2019

Figure it out...it's being contract made and has to be sorted out...new production schedules for profit. This ain't your Daddy's KODAK.

MattKing · Sep 12, 2019

Trey said:
X-Tol is now in these packets that look like they were put together in someone’s kitchen.

I have yet to see the new packaging - are there any photos around?

Agulliver · Sep 12, 2019

B&H describe D76 on offer as "2019 version" but say nothing about a change in the formula. They do describe it as "a classic black and white film developer". Someone has asked a question regarding differences between the previous and 2019 version but it has not yet been answered.

A few other products are described as "2019 version" and tellingly there are no photos. Chances are it's a packaging change but I can see why people are thinking there may be a chance in the contents.

chriscrawfordphoto · Sep 12, 2019

Nodda Duma said:
Bet a beer that as soon as they caught wind of the bankruptcy, Alaris began working to change their supplier of those developers from Tetenal to Legacy Pro. Now we’re seeing the outcome of that change.

Legacy Pro is not a manufacturer or even a company. It is just a brand name used by Freestyle for some of their store-brand products. Freestyle is now letting other stores, like B&H sell their Legacy Pro and Arista brand products. Who really makes them is unknown.

Nodda Duma · Sep 12, 2019

Good point Chris.. that should read “the company that produces Legacy Pro chemicals”.

cmacd123 · Sep 12, 2019

Nodda Duma said:
Good point Chris.. that should read “the company that produces Legacy Pro chemicals”.

most of the Legacy pro material data sheets are by "photo sciences" of Michigan, a company also known in the past as "Unicolor" That would be my strong guess as to the latest contractor.

Rolfe Tessem · Sep 16, 2019

https://www.photosys.com/photographic-chemistry

A likely guess...

Rolfe

punkzter · Sep 26, 2019

I ordered (and received about a week ago) the "new" D76 from BH. I haven't mixed any yet. But the packaging is absurd. It's about twice as long as the original packaging. Same width. I can't imagine why they would make this change. It doesn't really matter, though it is a bit harder to store.

pentaxuser · Sep 26, 2019

I do hope that the changes to the packaging has a definite benefit to the producer in terms of cost. My impression is that most of the analogue consumer market is quite or very conservative and changes to the packaging is not something to be entered into lightly

If it has an adverse effect on storage, ease of handling or worse the likes of longevity is affected and this is kept "quiet" by Kodak then it may well be the kind of bad decision that helps drive another "nail in its coffin"

Companies whose backs are against the wall tend to have histories of such decisions, nearly all driven by the need for short term financial improvements which can make the financial position worse and even fatally worse in the longer term.

pentaxuser

Kino · Sep 26, 2019

punkzter said:
I ordered (and received about a week ago) the "new" D76 from BH. I haven't mixed any yet. But the packaging is absurd. It's about twice as long as the original packaging. Same width. I can't imagine why they would make this change. It doesn't really matter, though it is a bit harder to store.

Probably easier to pack more in a standardized shipping container to retailers.

Shipping has become a real profit squeezer in this day and age...

adelorenzo · Sep 26, 2019

Unless something has changed in the past 5 years I do not believe that HC-110 has been reformulated. They changed the size of the bottles at one point (around 2013) but not the developer. I got a direct response from Kodak confirming it.

DREW WILEY · Sep 26, 2019

HC-110 has been recently changed. This differs from their packaging change not long ago. I've already seen the new bottles, and they're plainly labeled as something new, a distinct reformulation. I haven't had a chance to test any yet, and my own needs with respect to HC-110 are rather fussy. But so far I heard that it performs quite similar at least. Whether it stays good in concentrate as long is an open question.

What is going on with Kodak's developers?

Trey

pentaxuser

Rudeofus

Arklatexian

mshchem

MattKing

Moderator

mshchem

drpsilver

mshchem

AgX

pentaxuser

Nodda Duma

Trey

timmct

MattKing

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Agulliver

chriscrawfordphoto

Nodda Duma

cmacd123

Rolfe Tessem

punkzter

pentaxuser

Kino

adelorenzo

DREW WILEY

What is going on with Kodak's developers?

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