What is going on here? Leica CL content

Jon Buffington · Jun 22, 2015

So this has been off an on bothering me since acquiring this CL (bought in EX+ condition) over Christmas. It persists, usually 1-3 frames a roll and always in the same place. Here are two examples to show more accurately than my trying to describe the issue.

FWIW, this was Fuji xtra400, developed at home with a unicolor c-41 kit and scanned on a Kodak pakon f135+. I know it isn't the developer or the scanning as I have done hundreds of rolls with other camera/film combos and it is only with this camera.

Thanks in advance.

Sirius Glass · Jun 22, 2015

The light seals are leaking. Have the light seals replaced.

ic-racer · Jun 22, 2015

Do you have the negatives? How is the leak affecting the rebate and sprocket hole area? I don't know specifics about the CL, but in other cameras light from the frame counter window can be the culprit.

Jon Buffington · Jun 22, 2015

I have been thinking about it and it just doesn't look like a leak. Maybe to do with the light meter getting in the way? Or a shutter issue? It is just an increase in exposure in the same place, or at least what it looks like to my eye. Won't rule out a light leak. The film counter suggestion is an interesting one.

garysamson · Jun 22, 2015

I think you may have a pinhole in the focal plane shutter, the spot is in exactly the same position in both frames.

Jon Buffington · Jun 22, 2015

garysamson said:
I think you may have a pinhole in the focal plane shutter, the spot is in exactly the same position in both frames.

Would this only show up occasionally? It is not on every frame.

frank · Jun 22, 2015

Interesting speculation about the meter arm getting in the way, however that would result in underexposure on the neg and consequently a dark area on the print or scan. Somehow additional light is hitting the neg. You could check the shutter curtains, both first and second.

The affected area is at the bottom of the image, so the light is from the top of the camera's film gate. The affected area does not have an orange cast so the light isn't coming through the film from the back of the camera.

Jon Buffington · Jun 22, 2015

checked the curtains with a flashlight in the dark and couldn't see a culprit. This may just need to be sent in.

gone · Jun 22, 2015

Tape up the back and shoot a roll. That will tell you if its a light leak or a shutter issue. I had similar stuff happen on a CL I once owned, and if I remember correctly it was a light leak.

When you checked the shutter curtains, did you slowly advance the film advance to let the shutter curtains go through their cycle? Sometimes a shutter will test light tight when closed, but during the opening cycle will show an issue. It's not capping, that's for sure, and it looks like possible pin holes to me as well. But a light leak on the back could look similar, so easy to tape it and shoot a roll. Like Frank said, it looks more likely to be coming from the front of the film, but you never know.

Could it be flare? Maybe some spot on the lens, filter or hood? These are well made cameras w/ the usual German light traps that don't need seals, but I would ck the channels carefully to see if anything got bent or pitted. I think the body is aluminum, or at least the top is. Very soft stuff. That's why you often see the tops dented. The body is probably some sort of alloy perhaps, because mine felt a lot sturdier (or at least thicker) than that flimsy top.

Xmas · Jun 22, 2015

Remove lens and fire shutter on B and inspect floor of camera for shiny surface.

Inspect lens surfaces for misting with a strong light source behind lens.

A curtain pin hole would be small the image of the pinhole this looks like a flare spot.

It is more normal to look at the film rather than a print.

If the patch on the film extends into the rebate it is a leak into the take up spool area.

Bill Burk · Jun 22, 2015

ic-racer said:
Do you have the negatives? How is the leak affecting the rebate and sprocket hole area? I don't know specifics about the CL, but in other cameras light from the frame counter window can be the culprit.

If it were focal plane shutter pinholes, seems to me they would be sharp.

Looking at eBay I saw one for sale where the seller included shots of a CL with its back off, and shots also show the position of the frame counter window. This makes me think that light leak through the frame counter window is a possibility. If you have the negatives, position it in the camera where the frame would sit after it was shot and wound onto the next frame (so put your bad negative on the take-up spool side of the camera). Problem's on the bottom so the leak would be at the top.

It would only occur on "some" frames depending how quickly you were working, and how much light shone into the place where a light leak might be happening.

frank · Jun 23, 2015

Agree with Bill. There has to be a light baffle or seal between the cavity of the camera that the exposed film is wound, and any light access points in the top of the camera. That baffle or seal is possibly non-effectual anymore.

Xmas · Jun 23, 2015

frank said:
Agree with Bill. There has to be a light baffle or seal between the cavity of the camera that the exposed film is wound, and any light access points in the top of the camera. That baffle or seal is possibly non-effectual anymore.

The image is inverted in the camera so bottom is more likely than top.
It is a reverse wind take up spool so the leak is probably into that area if the rabates are affected - from the colour.
But it is a high contrast scene so lens flare or interior reflection is also a possibility.
We need more information from the film.
Like we need to see the rabate...

250swb · Jun 23, 2015

If looking at the camera with the lens mount facing you the flare is coming in from the top of the film gate and slightly to the right. Just at the point where there is a sort of indent/lug/thing that is on the edge of the film gate. I would guess light is coming in from the front of the camera around the rangefinder window and shining through and onto the emulsion via the indent/lug/thing (I can't from memory remember what it is for or does). Light seals can come away, or be left out if the camera has been serviced by somebody who doesn't know to check them.

Steve

Jon Buffington · Jun 23, 2015

Thanks for all the tips. Things to check tonight after work: bulb setting with a thorough look into cavity of body, check around film frame window for missing/defective seals, another look at shutter curtains, see if leak coming through to take up spool.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Jun 23, 2015

For shutter curtain light leak , its not necessary to be there a open hole , if curtain is old , the fibers or filler disintegrated , it slowly penetrates the light , it always happens with zenit , look for color change at curtain , if some area have different color tone , it is there.

it is necesaary for that mechjanism works at shooting , it works while lens look to the sun and slowly burns the film , thats why its blurry not sharp cast on film, learn how to paint that area , it happens because machine stays cocked and long stress on small area of curtain , if there is a special paint for that , it saves the money

Jon Buffington · Jun 24, 2015

Thanks Mustafa for the feedback.

Could not (to my very untrained eye) determine the cause after a close inspection. Looks like I need to find a repair person. Suggestions? Emailed Gus Lazzari as he has looked at a camera from me in the past but after emailing him it appears he is not taking any new work until Oct. 2015.

Xmas · Jun 24, 2015

Jon Buffington said:
Thanks for all the tips. Things to check tonight after work: bulb setting with a thorough look into cavity of body, check around film frame window for missing/defective seals, another look at shutter curtains, see if leak coming through to take up spool.

Did you look at the film?

Bill Burk · Jun 24, 2015

Xmas said:
Did you look at the film?

Right. If it has a crisp masked edge, then it happened during the photograph and is possible shining surface inside the area between lens and film. If it is soft and extends into the rebate, then it is a general body light leak - and it might be very small leak because over time a little leak adds up.

I have a Rollei 35 with a shiny surface inside between the lens and film which does give a similar effect when the sun (outside the picture frame) shines on the bar that the lens slides open on. The reflected sunlight gives a bluish blotchy effect. My other cameras are effectively baffled.

Xmas · Jun 24, 2015

Bill Burk said:
Right. If it has a crisp masked edge, then it happened during the photograph and is possible shining surface inside the area between lens and film. If it is soft and extends into the rebate, then it is a general body light leak - and it might be very small leak because over time a little leak adds up.

I have a Rollei 35 with a shiny surface inside between the lens and film which does give a similar effect when the sun (outside the picture frame) shines on the bar that the lens slides open on. The reflected sunlight gives a bluish blotchy effect. My other cameras are effectively baffled.

Lots of cameras won't do contra jour like OP post.
Lots of lenses will flare even in just out of box condition, especially if they are single coated.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Jun 24, 2015

Xmas , this is leica lens , it has every technology. I bet this is curtain stress and disintegration slow light leak. It would be a nightmare to op for a problem from a newly bought leica and I hope he doesnt needed to sell it . If you need DAG and sheryl krauter are the us repair persons you can trust.

Xmas · Jun 24, 2015

Hi Umut

Nope it is single coated and a cult lens.
We need to await what the OP says when he looks at the film.

Noel

RalphLambrecht · Jun 24, 2015

Xmas said:
Hi Umut

Nope it is single coated and a cult lens.
We need to await what the OP says when he looks at the film.

Noel

Oh ye;the Leica cult;it's like pagan theology

Jon Buffington · Jun 24, 2015

The spot on the film looks like a darker blotch (no sharp defined edges) and extends out onto the perfs. I had forgotten that suggestion so thank you folks for reminding me to look at the film. I did get a reply back from Gus and he will fix this if need be. Not sure then what is causing this, maybe it was a light leak? Lens used on the images linked was the 40 summicron though this has happened on an old serenar 50/1.8 ltm w/ adapter as well (haven't used my 90 elmar enough to notice).

I do want to get this resolved, one way or another as this camera has sentimental value. It was an anniversary gift from my wife.

Jon Buffington · Jul 6, 2015

Just an update: I sent this off to TLC Camera Repair and it is awaiting service. I appreciate all of your assistance with my question.

What is going on here? Leica CL content

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