What is Foma "velvet semi-matte"

Has anyone used the fomatone 133 or another Foma product with the 'velvet semi- matte' surface? If so, how would you describe it?
I'd really like something that looks like the old Agfa 118.
Thanks in advance
Victor

I've used the RC version (333) but I don't know if that's of any help...the FB finish might not correlate exactly. In RC it's a bit like Ilford's pearl finish but...flatter somehow (not "flat" in a bad sense) and a touch less shiny. There is definite texture to it. I would have suggested just getting a 25-pk in 5x7 because it's hard to explain over internet, but apparently their 5x7 warmtone FB only comes in glossy or matte. Freestyle also carries a Foma swatch book, unfortunately for the same price as a 25-pk of paper!

Victor, the Foma 123 has a surface texture VERY similar to the Agfa 118.

Andrew Moxom has shown me prints made on Agfa 118 and Foma 123 side by side, and even toned they are remarkably similar!

Try it out! It's super beautiful stuff. Liths like a dream too.

Tom, does the Foma reproduce the pebbly contour
of the 118 paper base, or only the emulsion color
and gloss? I loved 118's color but was not happy
with the pronounced pebbly texture.

I recently tested that paper for kicks. The color is very warm like Oriental warmtone. Before toning the image is a bit yellow-green, but in dilute selenium (1:19) for a couple minute it is a beautiful chocolate brown on a somewhat warm base. The "velvet" surface is like a matte surface that feels a little like fine grit sandpaper to the touch but really does look velvety. Would be nice for portraits or for anyone who likes warmtone paper. Get a pack of 8x10 from Freestyle and check it out.

Sanders, the surface is almost indistinguishable from Agfa MCC 118. So yes, it has that 'curling rink' pebbly surface.

The prints I saw were on Agfa 118 and Foma 123, side by side, split toned in sepia and selenium. I think Andrew uses Kodak Sepia II, and dilutes the bleach to about 1+8, dunks in bleach to get light bleach back, mainly in the highlights, then re-develop in the warmtone sepia toner, and finally selenium at about 1+15 or so for some really rich dark brown shadows and midtones.
I had severe problems distinguishing the Agfa from the Foma, both in color and tone.

Untoned, the Foma is warmer than the old Agfa, but not by much. The Agfa is probably more neutral tone to begin with, but that paper was pretty warm already. Toned, I almost think the Agfa was a tad warmer.

I'll send a link to this thread to Andy, to see if he wants to chime in. The differences between the two are VERY subtle.

- Thomas

Thanks for the feedback. I've just ordered
a pack of 123 and 133 from Freestyle and
will give them a try, split-toned and not. I
also ordered some of the Arista lith developer
-- this will be my first effort at lith printing.
(As you can probably tell, I'm casting about
for a different look and process now that I am
changing gears in my photographic subjects.)

I'm going to be very excited to see what you come up with, Sanders.

Lith printing can be very rewarding! Did you get the powder or liquid Arista kit?

- Thomas

I concur FOMA 123 Variant is uncanny in it's match to Agfa MCC 118. They are virtually indistinguishable to be honest. I have a box and a half (150 sheets) of MCC118 from older stock obviously, and interchange them readily when I run out of FOMA 123 and am waiting for Freestyle to deliver. The paper color, toning qualities and surface are almost an identical match. The only obvious difference is that MCC118 tends to go more purple in selenium while 123 Variant leans toward a slightly redder color the longer you leave the prints in the toners. I only selenium tone for color so can stop them before they go too far apart in color. My typical process involves diluting Kodak Sepia II bleach down 1:6. I bleach for approximately 30 seconds just to clip the highlights and warm up the image, wash for 5 minutes. Then move them to the sulphide bath. After another 5 minute wash, I move into the selenium toner I keep an eye on the color and as it warms up, I then I rinse, Hyp clear and wash for an hour. I warm the KRST up (not sure of my dilution on that as I replenish with a bit more KRST if I cannot smell the ammonia Not really scientific, but it works for me!! Both papers behave identical in enlarger exposure, development, bleach, etc. The other factor is that FOMA 123 Variant is really cheap compared to the other FOMA papers.

Andrew, how does 123 differ from 133?

That I'm not sure of Sanders. I know that FOMA has introduced a few papers allegedly with the same surface as MCC118. If it's velvet matt, then I would assume a similar surface with maybe a warmer base color than Variant 123 which is supposed to be a more neutral tone and base. I've only tried FOMA 131, 123 and 432 emulsions though.

Bare in mind, that all FOMA papers lith well. I've had great luck with the above 3 papers for the process, the Variant produces a more gritty look while the 131 is a bit cleaner. I'm standardizing on 123 as it's so versatile, and for now, the cheapest of the bunch!!

The 133 is a Fomatone paper, which means it's warmtone. It's the same emulsion as the glossy 131 and the matte 132, just a different surface.

Their nomenclature in the last letter is consistent throughout their product range. 3 = velvet, 2 = matte, and 1 = glossy.

Foma paper specification used by Dr. Harter

Dr. Harter,

In your posted note copied below, you refer to a black and white Foma paper that has a velvet, matte surface that feels like fine grit sandpaper.

A couple questions:

1) What is the Foma paper specification you mention?
2) The finished print has no sheen to it at all. Is that correct?

I am looking for a suitable B&W paper for portraiture. My requirements are that the paper be fiber-based, variable contrast, double-weight, and that the surface should have the texture kind of like suede (flat, slightly toothy, no gloss or sheen).

Your thoughts and comments, I would welcome and appreciate.

Thank you,

FLC.

jeroldharter said:

I recently tested that paper for kicks. The color is very warm like Oriental warmtone. Before toning the image is a bit yellow-green, but in dilute selenium (1:19) for a couple minute it is a beautiful chocolate brown on a somewhat warm base. The "velvet" surface is like a matte surface that feels a little like fine grit sandpaper to the touch but really does look velvety. Would be nice for portraits or for anyone who likes warmtone paper. Get a pack of 8x10 from Freestyle and check it out.

Click to expand...

Here is a list of the codes.
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Has anyone lith printed with this paper? Happy with the colors? Anyone have a sample image they can post? Thanks!

There are a bunch of examples in the galleries.

I did a gallery search and nothing came up and I was trying to engage in some sort of dialogue too. Thanks for the help.

To me when I tried it, the velvet texture just seemed to ruin it for me with the blacks, as it really picks up the light in those areas and the texture stands out, instead of just being black. Though I suppose if you shoot things that aren't as dominated by shadows or so forth it would be just fine.

jbridges said:

I did a gallery search and nothing came up and I was trying to engage in some sort of dialogue too. Thanks for the help.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I was thinking of some prints that in fact was not Fomabrom IV 123 when I looked. My apologies!

But a search turned up this and I think she has more:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Given the fact that it is a chloro-bromide paper, and from experience of the other Fomabroms, I'd say it is rather grainy and not much colour in lith.

The lith print on this paper is something between Fomabrom Variant 111 and Fomatone. Less colors than fomatone but more than fomabrom. Less grainy than fomabrom but more than fomatone.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/53957152@N02/5118186993/
is an example

Thanks. Very helpful!