What is causing these lines?

Eric Rose · Mar 30, 2005

I just developed a bunch of Delta 100 4x5 in Xtol 1:1. I've done this before and had no problems. The chemicals were mixed fresh and I use a tank with hangers. Same thing I've done for 100's of other sheets. I processed eight sheets and probably 6 of them had fine black straight lines on the negs. These are not scratches. Used several different lenses and 4 different film holders.

An example is posted in the Technical Gallery with both full frame and a small section. The scan is done to show the lines not to be a final rendition.

Any advise would be appreciated.

Eric

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

blansky · Mar 30, 2005

I don't know what caused the lines but if you want to keep the prints send them to me and I'll retouch them.

Michael

SchwinnParamount · Mar 30, 2005

Is this the first 6 sheets of a new box of film? Could it be a manufacturing defect that may exist in the whole box. Try exposing a sheet from the middle of the stack that's left in the box to see if the lines are in the film all the way through. You will get black lines like that where either very localized areas of silver hailides are more sensitive than the surrounding film, you had a weird very focused light leak in the camera (unlikely), you had a strange local surface effect that caused the developer to gravitate to these horizontal thin bands on the film so as to unevenly develop the film? I'm guessing here. I cannot begin to imagine what would cause this on your end. Errors that remove emulsion from the backing sheet are understandable, but additive errors?

rbarker · Mar 30, 2005

Although you might want to look at the film under high magnification, Eric, it looks like a film defect to me. I can't think of anything that would cause that with hanger-based development.

carbromac · Mar 30, 2005

if the weather is really dry, you might be picking up static marks if you unload the film fast.

KenM · Mar 30, 2005

I'm with Schwinn - I think this is a manufacturing problem. There's no way to get marks like this from tank/hanger processing, and if you used multiple holders....

As suggested above, try a sheet from the middle of the box.

Charles Webb · Mar 30, 2005

Try developing a single unexposed sheet directly from the same box. If you find the lines you know it is a film defect. No lines would indicate a camera problem since you used four different holders. The images BTW are fantastic!

Jorge · Mar 30, 2005

I am with carbromac with static electricity but I am thinking is more due to removing the dark slide too fast in cold dry weather.

eumenius · Mar 31, 2005

Eric Rose said:
I processed eight sheets and probably 6 of them had fine black straight lines on the negs. These are not scratches. Used several different lenses and 4 different film holders.

Such lines are most probably produced in manufacture process, by applying some pressure on a fresh emulsion layer - maybe Ilford people forgot to clean one of their numerous transport rollers, etc. The pressure causes a local oversensibilisation effect - the lines should be darker in dark places of your negative, and fainter in whites. A dark slide touching film can cause an effect alike, but that's not the case - you have changed four holders. It seems to be one of the rare warranty cases with Ilford film, unfortunately.

Cheers,
Zhenya

Eric Rose · Mar 31, 2005

These sheets are from the first envelope of a 100 sheet box. They are the last 9 sheets of the envelope, the first ones seemed to be ok but I will go back and look at them again as they were all night shots.

The static thing might be a cause, but it's got me buffaloed. I am going to shoot some sheets today against a light wall and see if they come up again.

Alex Hawley · Mar 31, 2005

I'll go along with the static electricity/dark slide theory. I had this happen once last summer. Of the six sheets I exposed on one day, five of them had similar lines. They were very fine but noticeable on close examination. The film was J&C 200 developed in trays with ABC pyro. Never had the same problem before or since, not to say it won't happen again.

George Losse · Mar 31, 2005

I've seen static discharges on film and they are never straight and parallel. They wonder or are curves and often have many little line coming off a main line. They almost look like caterpillars or spots with hairs coming out.

Try processing an unexposed sheet. I think its a manufacturing issue.

photomc · Mar 31, 2005

Eric, if it is a film defect it will show up one any films right out of the box - why not grab one sheet and process it in a tray to eliminate other variables. Just a thought.

Bob Carnie · Mar 31, 2005

Hi Eric

I would agree with the Static cause. I would not attribute it to a Manufacturing Flaw.
One suggestion, I have seen photflow cause plus density on film that gives a somewhat uneven straight line across the image..(prints as white line), though I am not sure this is the case . a quick inspecton of the film will tell as you will see the buildup on the emulsion or base, if it is base side it will wash off easily , if it is the emulsion side , you are s.o.o.l

Eric Rose · Mar 31, 2005

Thans for all your help everyone. I was hoping to get out today to expose another sheet or two and develop them. Unfortunately I'm stuck working on my website so will have to do the dev'ing tomorrow.

Stay tuned as they say! Oh ya, checked the other sheets I had shot from the same batch and they are all fine.

The mystery of it all LOL.

Donald Qualls · Apr 1, 2005

Alternate theory time:

Have you eliminated the possibility of a newly opened pinhole in the bellows?

What is causing these lines?

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