What have I done!

mkillmer · Mar 18, 2011

First of all, "Hi". I just found your site.
I am brand new to medium format photography. I really need some help - I think I've done something
My Bronica EC-TL arrived today, reading the instructions, I loaded it up with a fresh battery, popped in film and advanced to "1". I next tried the dark slide and took the back off.
I took my first medium format picture (yeah!) everything seemed fine, but the mirror did not go back down, and I cannot crank the film forward.
Yikes - I dont know what do do now.
I have a feeling I've just blown my first roll of film - can anyone suggest anything?
Thanks in advance -
Mark

vpwphoto · Mar 18, 2011

I it's been almost a couple dozen years since I used a Bronica. I do remember a little plastic tab that did something with the mirror.

You might have the mirror locked up. The Hasselblad has a pre-release mirror lock up deal too that sometimes seems to jam for a moment.

Set the camera down... don't panic, and re-read your book.

Do not force anything. Look in your book for "mirror" or "pre-release".

If all else fails you might need to go to the nearest big city with a professional grade camera shop.

That's all I can say right now.

Mats_A · Mar 18, 2011

mkillmer said:
..... I loaded it up with a fresh battery, popped in film and advanced to "1". I next tried the dark slide and took the back off.
.....

I do hope you did not "take the back off". Does not sound like a good idea. I'm sure someone who actually have used a Bronica EC will be around soon to explain this.

BTW. Welcome to APUG.

r

Mats

vpwphoto · Mar 18, 2011

http://www.butkus.org/chinon/bronica/bronica_ec-tl/bronica_ec-tl.htm

Here is an on-line manual... page 31 might be what you are looking for.
Ahh... that's a metal Bronica, I was using the Plastic ones from the 1980's.

brucemuir · Mar 18, 2011

Go here:
http://www.butkus.org/chinon/bronica.htm

Click on the link for the EC and download.
Drop Mr Butkus a few dollars because it's well worth it and the right thing to do.

Medium format cameras are mostly fidgety (exceptions exist of course) with all kinds of interlocks that prevent blank frames, misfires etc so it would be a good idea to read that manual and have it handy.

Have fun &good luck.

mkillmer · Mar 18, 2011

Mats_A said:
I do hope you did not "take the back off". Does not sound like a good idea. I'm sure someone who actually have used a Bronica EC will be around soon to explain this.

BTW. Welcome to APUG.

r

Mats

Thanks for the welcome - you guys are terrific to get back to me so quickly!!
My diagnosis is the mirror is not returning to the viewing position this is supposed to happen when the shutter is released. Also, I cannot wind on the film.
Now I wonder if I have loaded the film correctly - but that does not explain the mirror.
uggg.

holmburgers · Mar 18, 2011

The suggestion that the mirror-lock-up is locked seems the most reasonable. Have you checked this?

Good luck,

DWThomas · Mar 18, 2011

mkillmer said:
Thanks for the welcome - you guys are terrific to get back to me so quickly!!
My diagnosis is the mirror is not returning to the viewing position this is supposed to happen when the shutter is released. Also, I cannot wind on the film.
Now I wonder if I have loaded the film correctly - but that does not explain the mirror.
uggg.

Hmm - not familiar with the EC, but with the SQ-A (6x6), the mirror does not return to viewing position until film is advanced or the crank is turned with the Multi-Exposure lever flipped on. As mentioned above, there's some tricky interlocks that make diagnosing these cameras a bit tedious. And the MLU switch lever on the SQ-A has two positions, S (single) which returns to normal after the exposure and C (continuous) where the mirror stays up.

mkillmer · Mar 18, 2011

These are good suggestions. I'veread through the manual, and it turns out that even if mirror lockup is used, the mirror returns to the original position each time the shutter button is released.

Rick A · Mar 18, 2011

In your original post, you "tried the darkslide and took the back off" then took a photo. Did you trip the shutter with the back on or off, was the darkslide on or off, what exactly did you do. List the sequence of events exactly in the order you performed them. Tell us everything you did with the camera with and without the film.

paul ron · Mar 18, 2011

BTW did you remove the dark slide?

Is the screw at the front of the lens out n the slide there is not at A?... and is set for a long manual exposure?

The old EC doesn't have a mirror up feature where the mirror goes up then the shutter is fired via a cable like the ETRSi

Second, the mirror doesn't return to the down position like a 35mm camera after each shot, it has to be cranked into position again.

After reading the manual, check to see which position the multi exposure lever is in?

Do you have a metered prism? Remove it n see if the problem goes away?

Now insert the dark slide in the back and remove the back from tthe body? After you remove it, put the camera in multi exposure mode by flipping the lever? See if you can cock n fire the camera without the back on?

If it still dosn't fire, remove the lens? Now this is where it can get tricky. If you can't remove the lens as per the manual's instructions, you may have put an uncocked lens on a cocked body or visa versa. That will require you to take it to a shop. DO NOT FORCE ANYTHING... Using force can destroy the camera.

We aren't finished yet.... if you can remove the lens we can continue. See if the body fires all by itself?

Also check that the lens can fire alone off the body?

If all is good, we still have to figure out what is causing it to crap out by putting each part back on till you find the problem part. This may just be a user error then.

:confused:

mkillmer · Mar 18, 2011

ralnphot said:
In your original post, you "tried the darkslide and took the back off" then took a photo. Did you trip the shutter with the back on or off, was the darkslide on or off, what exactly did you do. List the sequence of events exactly in the order you performed them. Tell us everything you did with the camera with and without the film.

Hi,
My sequence:
Loaded film onto cassette and inserted into back.
Wound onto "1"
Inserted dark slide, took back off.
Reattached back,
set up for shot,
Used dof preview, took shot (on tripod)
Normal shutter sound, but the mirror stayed up
Unable to wind forward, but winder can ratchet backwards
Mirror lockup was not engaged
If I take off back and press the connection lever, the winder can turn, but mirror does not move.
Film cassette will not wind on manually when removed from body
I hope that helps!
Thanks for your assistance
Mark

mkillmer · Mar 18, 2011

Hi Paul Ron,
The camera is set for single exposure, I can easily remove the lens, I can take off the back and press the lever and camera will allow me to wind, but shutter will not cock.
No problem with "the gentle touch" - I don't plan on forcing anything!!!
Oh, and pressing the fire bourdon does nothing.
What do you recommend in look for behind the lens?
Thanks, mark

paul ron · Mar 19, 2011

In order to cock the camea without the back, you need to put iot into multi shot mode by flipping the lever by the crank. Then you can wind n shoot. The mirror comes back each time you cock the camera, not automatically like your 35mm camera. It stays up after a shot.

To fire the lens off the body, there is a tiny pin in the side of the mount. Push that in with a finger nail n rotate the 2 pins at the green dot and it will fire. To recock the lens ritae the 2 pins to the dot again and it will lock in place with the lens wide open, ready to fire again.

Also take a look at eh front of the lens to see if the slide is by the A or set to manually keep teh lens open for a long exposure? Check the manual for a picture of it and instructions.

mkillmer · Mar 20, 2011

paul ron said:
To fire the lens off the body, there is a tiny pin in the side of the mount. Push that in with a finger nail n rotate the 2 pins at the green dot and it will fire. To recock the lens ritae the 2 pins to the dot again and it will lock in place with the lens wide open, ready to fire again.

Hi Paul Ron,
Where are these pins located?
thanks,
Mark

mkillmer · Mar 20, 2011

Here are images of my EC-TL.
Camera Back back (film back off)
Film Back
Camera R. Side
Camera L. Side
I cant find the dots you mention - can you point them out?
Thanks!

mexico531 · Mar 20, 2011

I don't think you'll find any of the dots mentioned on your lens. Those instructions apply to the more modern SQ series of cameras with leaf shutters. The EC series of Bronicas use focal plane shutters and, if they are like the the "S" series Bronicas of which they are a derivative, then the mirror should return to the taking position after each exposure. It's been a number of years since I last used one of the older type of Bronicas, but I'm sure if you do an internet search something will turn up.

mexico531 · Mar 20, 2011

I've just checked the online manual, which can be found here: http://www.butkus.org/chinon/bronica/bronica_ec-tl/bronica_ec-tl.htm, and the EC-TL does indeed have an instant return mirror.

paul ron · Mar 20, 2011

I see it is an instant return mirror, sorry.

Read the first page of the manual's second part concerning operation in auto mode..

http://www.cameramanuals.org/prof_pdf/bronica_ec-tl-2.pdf

perhaps this is your problem all along?

MarkF48 · Mar 20, 2011

I have a Bronica EC. The mirror should return to the down position after the shutter fires. I did just try this as it's been a few years since I've used the camera. I don't believe the EC-TL should be different.
I did have a problem with mine a good number of years ago that the mirror would stay in the up position after a shot. This was due to the foam that dampens the mirror hit becoming gummy and the mirror would get stuck to the foam. I could gently pry the mirror loose from the foam and it would drop. Note: If the foam is gummy it can make a real mess if you inadvertently spread it around. Replacing the foam fixed this problem. This may or may not be your problem, but assuming the foam may never have been changed, it may be a possibility.

Another problem mine has, not related to the mirror, is the battery check LED does not work. Believe I've read this is somewhat a common problem and related to the circuit that reads the battery voltage. After the check light failed the camera seemed to drain the battery quicker so I assumed the circuit had some leakage which caused the battery drain.

mkillmer · Mar 20, 2011

(Sort of) Working now!

I was able to take some pictures! I touched the back of the mirror while looking inside the camera and it shifted. Since then I have been able to take 3 more shots.
Not really a good sign, but better that not working at all.
I will run through the roll of film today and see if the camera keeps working.
Thanks for all your help - this is a really a great group of people!

Dr.Pain-MD · Mar 20, 2011

If it got stuck due to the old mirror foam, then it's not a very big problem at all. It's an easy and cheap replacement for anyone who knows what they;re doing or you can even do it yourself for almost nothing if you have steady hands.

mkillmer · Mar 23, 2011

Problem solved

Dr.Pain-MD said:
If it got stuck due to the old mirror foam, then it's not a very big problem at all. It's an easy and cheap replacement for anyone who knows what they;re doing or you can even do it yourself for almost nothing if you have steady hands.

I dont know if this will help anyone, but in case it might i will "tell all"...
I worked out the problem was the mirror not fully rising by poking around. I disassembled the camera took out the ground glass and tried to spot the exact hinge that was sticking.
I repeated the following process 2 times:
Locked the mirror
Adjusted the mirror (lightly pushed it up)
Took the photo
Wound on
After the second time, I didn't need to adjust the mirror and it's been fine since!

paul ron · Mar 23, 2011

But still have no idea what caused the problem.. just gave it some excersise. ummmm. Maybe loosened up the gunk?

What have I done!

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