What has been your preferred Economical Paper?

David Lyga · Mar 3, 2017

NedL said:
Adorama house brand.

+1. It is that good. I still have some from 15 years ago stored at room temperate. Hardly a tiny bit of fog, easily corrected with Farmer's. - David Lyga

DF · Mar 4, 2017

Oriental RC Glossy. Takes twice as long in the developer as Ilford ( anyone notice that?).
Couple bucks cheaper than Ilford, and, wonder why I still use it- every 25-count pack I've gotten in the past 6 months has on average 2 sheets that turn light brown, or blotchy. Guys I work with can't figure it out either.
The name "Oriental" seems abit odd as well - in this day & age....?

kb244 · Mar 5, 2017

DF said:
The name "Oriental" seems abit odd as well - in this day & age....?

.... so just change the brand name that's been around since Ansel Adams used them?

http://www.orientalphotousa.com/press_adams.htm

Also it's not so strange a name, seeing as it's made in Japan, since it's a vague way of say East Asia.

RSalles · Mar 5, 2017

kb244,

I didn't know that, but the remark (from the website you've pointed to:
"Anyone who has gazed at Ansel Adam's original print of "Moonrise, Hernandez" is looking at Oriental New Seagull paper, distributed by International Supplies. Adams' 16x20-inch dodge/burn schematic for that negative is frequently displayed at gallery exhibitions. A handwritten margin note specifies, "Use New Seagull #3."
... confirms my previous remark that "I find Oriental a serious paper, not a cheap option, old style paper."

Glad to know that,

Cheers,

Renato

~andi · Mar 11, 2017

DF said:
The name "Oriental" seems abit odd as well - in this day & age....?

Import ban?

Wayne · Mar 12, 2017

Oriental sounds outdated and awkward when used to describe people or foods in America today, but as a brand name I've never thought twice about it. For those too young to remember just about anything east Asian used to be called Oriental.

MattKing · Mar 12, 2017

These folks seem to be keen about "Oriental" as a brand name: http://www.mandarinoriental.com/
Personally, I really like their RC paper. I use it fairly frequently for 11x14 enlargements, especially ones that I think will benefit from toning.

kb244 · Mar 13, 2017

Last thursday had a few hours to myself in the darkroom. I really like the bright white of the Oriental Seagull VC II, though I'm still trying to hit that really deep black (as usual it's there when it's wet, but not when it dries so hard to see accurately until it's completely dry). Tonality is rather nice to my eyes with the 2.5~3 contrast filter, I haven't tried one above 3.5 yet. The one small annoyance is that sometimes, just sometimes one of the sheets will be split in the corner, like a very small splitting open as if two plastic sheets laminated on paper split at the paper end.

A couple things I noticed or did differently since I was alone there that night :

The 68F mark on both built-in thermometer (shown circled in green) on the sinks in both rooms, actually puts out 65F water (multiple thermometers matching to be sure), putting it at 69F just dead center between the 68F and 70F mark puts out 68F at the end of the hose.
With the steel-bottomed sinks, it'll take the tray of 5L of fluid about 2.5 to 3 hours to drop to ~65F.
Usually we don't use perma wash (ie: archival fixer remover), so for my session that night, I had a tray at the end of the Sprint Fixer remover (Red Tray surrounded by two white water trays), so 1st wash, remover, final wash tray. (Usually it's just Sprint Print Dev 1:9, 90 sec, Sprint Stop 1:9 60 sec, water, Sprint Rapid Fixer [non-hardening] 1:9 3 minutes, final wash 5 mins, drying rack)

Pic (My enlarger station is the far back corner there, with the one dead enlarger next to me that I use as overflow):

The only other annoyance on the Seagull paper is I can't really write notes on the back of them, just kind of wipes off compared to the Ilford multigrade paper.

MattKing · Mar 13, 2017

kb244 said:
The only other annoyance on the Seagull paper is I can't really write notes on the back of them, just kind of wipes off compared to the Ilford multigrade paper.

Look for a really soft pencil - #6 or so.
Technically, it isn't fixer "remover". The fixer is removed by the wash. The clearing agent/wash aid just changes the fixer to a chemical complex that is more soluble in water than the original.
To get blacker blacks, try adding a very short burst with the highest contrast filter you have.
Looks like a great setup!

Tim Stapp · Mar 13, 2017

I believe that darkroom is why we can still buy film, paper and chemicals at Norman Camera!

kb244 · Mar 13, 2017

MattKing said:
Look for a really soft pencil - #6 or so.
Technically, it isn't fixer "remover". The fixer is removed by the wash. The clearing agent/wash aid just changes the fixer to a chemical complex that is more soluble in water than the original.
To get blacker blacks, try adding a very short burst with the highest contrast filter you have.
Looks like a great setup!

Thanks for the tip.

Regarding the set up, I really wish we had a revolving door (because not everyone closes the curtain outside and then they just whip the door right open) and that my classmates would load their prints from back to front in the dryer rather than dripping all over everyone's prints trying to find the largest gap to put their print in.

kb244 · Mar 13, 2017

Tim Stapp said:
I believe that darkroom is why we can still buy film, paper and chemicals at Norman Camera!

Probably, though I don't, too expensive, too limited on choices. Most other accessories sure, but not film.

You know MCAT had a film darkroom too plus a 2 grand RC paper rapid l drier.

Tim Stapp · Mar 13, 2017

My RC paper drier I stole from my wife - her $15 hair drier

kb244 · Mar 13, 2017

Tim Stapp said:
My RC paper drier I stole from my wife - her $15 hair drier

Peter Schrager · Mar 15, 2017

I use #2 pencil on back of Oriental. .no problem at all

RalphLambrecht · Mar 19, 2017

kb244 said:
Since I was running low on some paper donated to me by a fellow classmate and professor (both the usual recommended Ilford Multigrade glossy 8x10 resin coated paper) I decided to place an order this morning for some Oriental Seagull VC Resin paper (it was just a dollar more than Kentmere, which from reviews seem to suggest it doesn't have as wide a contrast range as Ilford/etc, but least 10 less than Ilford MG IV).

But for future reference I was curious to hear what people liked and why. At the school we're mainly using a bunch of Beseler 67SC enlargers with condenser heads and Beselar 50/3.5 (though on mine I swapped the lens out with an El-Omegar 50/3.5 I like better, though would have preferred the Nikon 75/4, but a bit too long for 35mm). Figured I'd mention it since it seems like some papers behave differently between condenser heads and cold cathode diffusion heads (I used to own a 23C with a cold head, but got lost in storage when it lapsed)

With least the Ilford stuff I been a fan of printing more towards higher contrast side, usually a Ilford 3 filter or higher, or if I go any higher than 3-1/2 I'm splitting between low and high contrast in two exposures. And while some of my stuff is loose, I plan on placing keepers into archival sleeves with their own paper backing/inserts so bending isn't as much an issue.

The only other papers I have right now that isn't fogged to hell (though to be honest some of them do have a cool but unpredictable texture, basically inherited from the store before it went under) are :
to me ,time is money, so, I just stick with Alford quality papers. Why take chances and risk frustration with low- cost papers? I can't afford the cheap stuff or buying and printing twice.
- Ilford Multigrade fiber based, warm tone, semi-mat, 8x10 in 100 sheet box that I bought new back in 2007 and haven't gotten round to using it till this year. Love the paper but I don't use it much because I wait until the end of the day when most people have left to use it, so that I can allow it longer wash times without someone adding a new print to the wash.

- Agfa Brovira 5x7, fiber based, that expired in 1957. A tricky paper due to age, but I've gotten some real nice tones off it.

So in a nutshell I'm looking for some economical resin coated glossy or semi-gloss for regular use, but will still give me good contrast control. Preferably on the neutral/cool side for the normal usage.

Edit: We're using Sprint developer/stop/fix in the trays. The rapid fixer is non-hardening if it matters for recommendations. When it comes to the wash, the guideline has simply been 5 minutes in a tray with running water. (I usually want to go for 20+ but course if I use any of the fiber based paper, it'll get re-contaminated each time a student adds a print to the tray, usually no more than 2 sit in a tray at a time before they squeegee it and stick it in the rack, though for FB I use the ancient huge 26 foot belt/heat dryer out in the hallway, I'm like the only one using the old stuff this semester)

kb244 · Mar 26, 2017

I see the quote, but I don't see your response anywhere.

What has been your preferred Economical Paper?

David Lyga

DF

kb244

RSalles

~andi

Wayne

MattKing

Moderator

kb244

MattKing

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Tim Stapp

kb244

kb244

Tim Stapp

kb244

Peter Schrager

RalphLambrecht

kb244

What has been your preferred Economical Paper?

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