What has been your preferred Economical Paper?

Since I was running low on some paper donated to me by a fellow classmate and professor (both the usual recommended Ilford Multigrade glossy 8x10 resin coated paper) I decided to place an order this morning for some Oriental Seagull VC Resin paper (it was just a dollar more than Kentmere, which from reviews seem to suggest it doesn't have as wide a contrast range as Ilford/etc, but least 10 less than Ilford MG IV).


But for future reference I was curious to hear what people liked and why. At the school we're mainly using a bunch of Beseler 67SC enlargers with condenser heads and Beselar 50/3.5 (though on mine I swapped the lens out with an El-Omegar 50/3.5 I like better, though would have preferred the Nikon 75/4, but a bit too long for 35mm). Figured I'd mention it since it seems like some papers behave differently between condenser heads and cold cathode diffusion heads (I used to own a 23C with a cold head, but got lost in storage when it lapsed)

With least the Ilford stuff I been a fan of printing more towards higher contrast side, usually a Ilford 3 filter or higher, or if I go any higher than 3-1/2 I'm splitting between low and high contrast in two exposures. And while some of my stuff is loose, I plan on placing keepers into archival sleeves with their own paper backing/inserts so bending isn't as much an issue.

The only other papers I have right now that isn't fogged to hell (though to be honest some of them do have a cool but unpredictable texture, basically inherited from the store before it went under) are :

- Ilford Multigrade fiber based, warm tone, semi-mat, 8x10 in 100 sheet box that I bought new back in 2007 and haven't gotten round to using it till this year. Love the paper but I don't use it much because I wait until the end of the day when most people have left to use it, so that I can allow it longer wash times without someone adding a new print to the wash.

- Agfa Brovira 5x7, fiber based, that expired in 1957. A tricky paper due to age, but I've gotten some real nice tones off it.

So in a nutshell I'm looking for some economical resin coated glossy or semi-gloss for regular use, but will still give me good contrast control. Preferably on the neutral/cool side for the normal usage.

Edit: We're using Sprint developer/stop/fix in the trays. The rapid fixer is non-hardening if it matters for recommendations. When it comes to the wash, the guideline has simply been 5 minutes in a tray with running water. (I usually want to go for 20+ but course if I use any of the fiber based paper, it'll get re-contaminated each time a student adds a print to the tray, usually no more than 2 sit in a tray at a time before they squeegee it and stick it in the rack, though for FB I use the ancient huge 26 foot belt/heat dryer out in the hallway, I'm like the only one using the old stuff this semester)

Use the paper you like most. 10 bucks on a 100 sheet box shouldn't make a huge difference.

miha said:

Use the paper you like most. 10 bucks on a 100 sheet box shouldn't make a huge difference.

Click to expand...

Hence why I'm requesting suggestions, as opposed to spending $20 a pop to try em all out.

You could do far worse than sticking with the Ilford.
But Foma is good, so is Kentmere (made by Ilford). Freestyle's Arista might be a good choice too, don't know who's making it currently though.

For 8x10 - old FB. Fifty years old single grade paper is superior to Kentmere MG RC, IMO. And cheaper. I don't have problems with AGFA Brovira FB old papers, in particular. I have more problems with fresh RC from Ilford and Kentmere.
But if I have to do it on fresh, I do it on 5x7. More economical than 8x10.
After 8x10 here is no economical paper I could find...

What kind of problems do you have with fresh RC from Ilford Ko.Fe.?

bdial said:

You could do far worse than sticking with the Ilford.
But Foma is good, so is Kentmere (made by Ilford). Freestyle's Arista might be a good choice too, don't know who's making it currently though.

Click to expand...

I'm weary about Foma (Arista EDU Ultra being a little cheaper for the same stuff in the US) in regards to quality control. Far as I can tell Arista's "EDU Ultra" = Foma, I know this for sure on the film side, but not 100% sure on the paper side.

I recently got a bulk roll of Arista EDU Ultra 200 (aka Fomapan 200), which is lovely on the grain, but the bulk roll came pre-scratched on most of the frames, mostly in what appeared to be the polymer backing in between the outside and the emulsion side. B&H gonna do a swap on that, when of course it comes back in stock.

The Kentmere stuff seems ok from what I could find online, but the two issues I might have with it is 1) it's a bit faster than Ilford , and would prefer to keep my times up above 15~20 seconds without having to stop down more than 5.6~8 and 2) Read a couple reviews suggesting that Kentmere doesn't have as good a contrast range as just the Ilford MG, particularly above a 3 filter. Not something I'd really want to deal with for only a 10$ savings in 100 sheet count (in 25 sheet count, they're the same price so might as well get Ilford in that case).

For my own personal use, I would lean towards Ilford Pearl finish (or something equivalent to a satin/luster in another brand), but course the professor pretty much only wants glossy, I think because wants to show a deeper/crisper black. However that would make more sense if we were using a hardening fixer for a high shine, but we're not. I'm mainly not too big a fan of the glare on the ilford paper even with the non-hardening fixer.

The professor and I don't exactly agree on chemistry choices (he leans for convenience which I can understand when teaching a class), which course is why on the film development side I already have my own mixes of Microphen and HC-110 up on the shelf that I use for my own stuff. I would be more a fan of Dektol on the print side, but on the print side we pretty much dump all the trays down the drain at the end of the night rather than re-use (film side we reuse everything except the developer).

I use Ultrafine RC which I think is Kentmere for work prints, I use Foma and Slavich RC or FB for final prints. I have been using Foma or rebranded Foma ever since Kodak and Afga stopped making paper, so far no issues with quality control. I have never cared for Ilford. In terms of processing, I use either LPD, Dektol or Ultrafine developer, process RC 60 seconds, stop bath then 120 second fix in standard fix.

Paul Howell said:

I use Ultrafine RC which I think is Kentmere for work prints, I use Foma and Slavich RC or FB for final prints. I have been using Foma or rebranded Foma ever since Kodak and Afga stopped making paper, so far no issues with quality control. I have never cared for Ilford. In terms of processing, I use either LPD, Dektol or Ultrafine developer, process RC 60 seconds, stop bath then 120 second fix in standard fix.

Click to expand...

Harman (i.e.: Owner of Ilford) has stated in the past that Kentmere has never been and never will be re-branded as any other private label.

My preferred papers are Ilford Multigrade, the RC pearl and the warmtone FB.

kb244 said:

Harman (i.e.: Owner of Ilford) has stated in the past that Kentmere has never been and never will be re-branded as any other private label.

Click to expand...

In that case might coated for Ultrfine by Harman so may be very close. I have read from others who also state that Ultrafine film is not the exact film as Kemtmere so might coated to order. Not sure who else would coat to order. Regardless of maker Ultrfine works for me for proofs and work prints.

kb244 said:

Hence why I'm requesting suggestions, as opposed to spending $20 a pop to try em all out.

Click to expand...

I am not sure how someone else is going to be able to tell you which paper you will prefer. They can only tell you which paper they prefer.

I went through this recently with inkjet papers. I bought several sample packs from different manufacturers and printed the same image on about thirty papers. Naturally, they were all different, and I had to look at all of them in order to make a reasoned decision on which I preferred. Fortunately, there are many fewer options with photographic paper.

You really just need to make the investment to determine what you like. Time is your most valuable resource. Pinching pennies on materials is a losing proposition.

Adorama house brand.

I just finished my first package of Oriental RC and I was OK with it. I'd use it again. I havent tried Arista but I'd like to

I really liked Gekko RC, sadly no longer made. I do have a stockpile in my freezer.

Gerald C Koch said:

I really liked Gekko RC, sadly no longer made. I do have a stockpile in my freezer.

Click to expand...

A conundrum. Got a stockpile, but likely one you won't get thru because you'll be questioning yourself every time you want to bring one out for a print, asking if it's worth the sheet.

I tried a box of Adorama brand paper and was VERY impressed. It's cheap as chips and looks fine (though different than Ilford MGIV)

When my boxes of Ilford, Oriental Seagull, Kentmere, and the rest are gone...I'm going to use Adorama paper.

rpavich said:

I tried a box of Adorama brand paper and was VERY impressed. It's cheap as chips and looks fine (though different than Ilford MGIV)

When my boxes of Ilford, Oriental Seagull, Kentmere, and the rest are gone...I'm going to use Adorama paper.

Click to expand...

Any clue which paper Adorama is re-branding?

Tried the Seagull today, but haven't had too much time to experiment, just it's a bit faster than Ilford Multigrade, was trying to match up another print. It has a brighter white, and when I expose it long enough pitch black that's nicer than Ilford. The feel of the paper itself feels nice and it seems to wash relatively quickly. It was an extremely busy night with the drying racks getting filled up fast and some headaches with students not closing the damn curtain when exiting the darkroom that I decided to just quit for the night and I'll probably get back to it tomorrow when maybe only one other person will be there.

I took what few sheets I had left from one of the ilford boxes and combined it into one, and marked up the empty box to throw the small batch of Oriental into. I find that the 100 sheet pack is packed a little tighter (the box itself seems marginally smaller than Ilford's), so wasn't easy getting stuff in and out.

In testing one of the shots briefly, I noticed that the same shot, at nearly the same crop and enlargement, the Oriental paper would be closest to the Ilford print, when it's at 20 seconds, f/8 with a 3.5 contrast filter, versus the Ilford at 24 seconds, f/5.6, with the same contrast filter, at the same development times.

Last month I tried to get Adorama MG RC but in their website it wasn't offered anymore, they just discontinued to offer this paper, so my option now is for Ultrafine VC ELite. I find Oriental a serious paper, not a cheap option, old style paper.
In the old days when we had planty of photo papers to choose I used Ilford for prints with big highlight areas, Kodak for mainly mid-tones negatives (and eventually for some overexposed negatives too) and Agfa for photos with large shadow areas, all selenium toned.
There are fewer choices today, but we have to work with what's available with larger price tag range and hope for the best.
One of these days I will end buying Foma or Berger, but I just don't see a reason to take this decision now, just looking at their selling prices compared to - you name it.

Cheers,

Renato

They won't say what factory, (there was a url link here which no longer exists).

It's a little hard to find on the website, but still available, eg:

Dead Link Removed
Dead Link Removed

They also have glossy and matte fiber, which some folks here like. I haven't tried those.
I've ordered it many times when it says "on backorder" and it always arrives eventually, sometimes it takes a month or two.
I go through a lot of those 250 sheet boxes of 5x7. At 20 cents a sheet, I can make paper negatives with a kind of carefree approach that makes it a lot more fun. For both paper negatives and under the enlarger, the paper is about twice as fast as Ilford MG IV.

I think it must be pretty popular, because they sell out often.

NedL said:

They won't say what factory, (there was a url link here which no longer exists).

It's a little hard to find on the website, but still available, eg:

Dead Link Removed
Dead Link Removed

They also have glossy and matte fiber, which some folks here like. I haven't tried those.
I've ordered it many times when it says "on backorder" and it always arrives eventually, sometimes it takes a month or two.
I go through a lot of those 250 sheet boxes of 5x7. At 20 cents a sheet, I can make paper negatives with a kind of carefree approach that makes it a lot more fun. For both paper negatives and under the enlarger, the paper is about twice as fast as Ilford MG IV.

I think it must be pretty popular, because they sell out often.

Click to expand...

Not only popular, that's rather inexpensive for a 100ct (44.95 or so), at first I was thinking it was higher priced than Ilford, but then I noticed it was 250ct. Their 25 pack is a little over $12, maybe when I get the itching for some more Tri-X I'll also grab a pack of their paper and just have em ship the whole package when it's ready.

Edit: the 25 pack is in stock with free shipping... hmmmm.

NedL said:

They won't say what factory, (there was a url link here which no longer exists).

Click to expand...

hahaha its 1999-2000 all over again !

speaking of which my favorite paper used to be the stuff sold by photowarehouse it wasn't made in europe but "made in england"
i'm still using it !
my other preferred economical papers are expired silver chloride paper because it doesn't go bad

I tried Seagull, but was disappointed. The whites and border were grayish instead of white, and the emulsion flaked off near the edge after processing, as if they had used a dull knife when slicing it to size. Perhaps I got a bad batch.

Fomabrom Variant 111 FB, 5x7, 100 sheets for 23 Euros even cheaper when its on sale (ordered directly from the foma shop). And that's fresh paper not some expired stock. And they're always packing about 20 sheets in sample packs to test for free. No complaints about quality with their FB line of products.

As far as I'm concerned Fomabrom Variant 111 FB is equal in quality (tone, surface) to Ilford MG (normal, not warmtone), and cheaper.

I'm weary about Foma (Arista EDU Ultra being a little cheaper for the same stuff in the US) in regards to quality control

Click to expand...

issues of QC with Foma stuff have been, AFAIK, for films, not papers

My preferred papers are Ilford (...) warmtone FB.

Click to expand...

OP's question was about cheap papers. Personally, I like Galerie even better.