What film type for NPC Polaroid back?

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Roundabout

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Hi

I'm new to instant film, so any advice or help would be great.

I've been looking at buying an NPC camera back for one of my SLRs – Olympus OM or Nikon FM (even a Topcon, if they exist).

But I'm having trouble working out what instant film this would take. For example, do they use ordinary Fujifilm - FP-3000B and so on?

In fact, I'm not completely sure how they work. I just like the idea of using Polaroid with these cameras, rather then a cheap land camera. I assume you can get better quality results? But perhaps I'm getting confused.

Thanks
 

Alex Muir

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I have an NPC for a Bronica SQ. It uses the Fuji FP 100C film, or FP3000B, but other backs for different cameras may have been designed for different film sizes. The downside on the Bronica is that the image is only 6x6cm which is very small, and a large area of film is wasted. On a 35mm camera the image would be the size of a 35mm negative. Personally, I would find that to be too small. There was a back for the Nikon F that had a mechanism to produce a bigger print, but I have never actually seen one. It was called a Speed Magny. It was quite s bulky attachment. Some of the Polaroid cameras are supposed to be quite good, and would at least make better use of the film.
Alex.
 

AgX

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Using large films as used in that NPC back will not work that way with your SLRs for 35mm film.


With those cameras the film plane lies between two guiding rails, the film thus must fit inbetween. Even worse, the rest of the camera back is prutruding even more.


Bringing the plane of focus further back onto the plane formed by that larger film would need bringing the lens nearer to the body as well the groundglass in the finder higher up. Something better not to tackle with.

There had been special relay optics devised to relay the plane of focus, but they reduced image quality.

Though you could modify a 35mm SLR body by milling the whole back to only take such films.
But the outcome still would be 24x36mm images on a much larger film.
 
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Roundabout

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Thanks folks. Yes, that makes sense.

I've decided to go with a land camera and take it from there. If only Fuji wasn't discontinuing its only black and white film...
 

AgX

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There also was a device that relayed the image, enlarged and projected it onto the whole film size, without image degradation.
But that again was a huge, clumsy device.
 

AgX

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I once found a photo of it. Never bothered to look for as it would not make much sense using it.
Except if you need an instant photograph but the same time the DOF inherent to smaller formats.
 

wiltw

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NPC backs take the Polaroid 6nn film (3-1/4 x 4-1/4")

In view of the fact that Polaroid company no longer makes instant films, you would need to get some from here Dead Link Removed
The Impossible Project in 2008, purchased the last factory in the world manufacturing Polaroid instant film.

An instant film back on 135 format camera is rather a waste...24x36mm image area used
 

CatLABS

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NPC backs take the Polaroid 6nn film (3-1/4 x 4-1/4")

In view of the fact that Polaroid company no longer makes instant films, you would need to get some from here Dead Link Removed
The Impossible Project in 2008, purchased the last factory in the world manufacturing Polaroid instant film.

An instant film back on 135 format camera is rather a waste...24x36mm image area used

Fuji makes instant film.
IP does not make peel apart film (other then 8X10).
NPS backs take all 600/100 type film Which is 3.25X4.25, of which Fuji still makes two types.
 

M Carter

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Hmmm... some confusion in this thread.

Polaroid backs for most MF cameras are a different beast than for 35. The Forscher Probacks used a block of fiber optic material, about the size of the film plane, to transfer the image from the 35 film plane to the polaroid. (This sytem was also used for MF cameras like Mamiya rangefinders)

They're not intended to fill the whole frame, they're for proofing and testing lighting, generally on commercial shoots. Back in the film days, there were several types of polaroid pack film, but commercial shoots primarily used a 100-speed color to match the ubiquitous EPP Ektachrome and other 100-ish roll films. There was also an excellent 64T polaroid film in pack and 4x5. The color and speed was remarkably accurate, even coming through the fiber optic. You'd generally open up 1/2 to 1/3 stop (and of course you snip tested all your rolls for additional push or pull processing). The polaroids would be a very close match to your final film when it came from the lab. it was wonderful product.

Because the sheet size was so huge compared to the 35 frame, there was a small nylon "strap" sticking out of the back of the proback. When you shot a frame, you'd pull the tab of the polaroid out until it was even with the end of the strap (not far enough to crush the chemistry packet), and then could shoot another bracket. When you pulled the sheet from the back, it would crush the packet and then you developed the sheet normally and it would have 2 frames on the sheet - the strap was just a guide to allow getting 2 frames on one sheet. In those days, you kept a couple cheap loupes in your bag for viewing the 'roids, and many clients/art directors had their own on neck lanyards. When louped, the pack film images had a definite "texture" - they weren't fine-art style stuff (the B&W pos-neg was most definitely fine-art capable, but I never made prints from 35mm, only 6x7 and 4x5). But the highlights, shadow detail, and color rendering were very good for tweaking a shot in the pre-digital era.

(I once came across a set of magnetic picture frames for your fridge door that were for the tiny wallet-sized school pictures... I'd have my favorite images "framed" on the studio fridge - I had some really gorgeous shots for high-end retailers and apparel manufacturers, editorial, etc. Wish I still had 'em.)

Most shooters then didn't use a timer for the polaroid - after 30 seconds or so, you'd peel back a corner and check for solid black, and every ten seconds or so peel further until the unexposed edge had developed to solid black.

Because the pack-holder was even bigger than many 35 bodies, it also came with a machined post with tripod screws that would raise the whole camera up enough for the camera & pack combo to clear the tripod head. Most shooters kept a release plate on this. You would generally assign a body to polaroid duty, as getting the back on and off was very fiddly. At the end of the pro film era, cameras like the F4 (for Nikon) were popular commercial cameras for 35mm fashion, so cameras like the 8008s or N90s were popular for polaroid duty, since they were cheaper yet still went to 1/8000th, giving you all the speeds a modern film body might use on a shoot. Once you had a good 'roid and client signoff, you'd swap the lens from your roid camera, make sure the settings were good, adjust exposure per your experience with polaroid vs. film, and start shooting. You could spot a newbie by the time they'd spent changing the polaroid back for the film back - guys who could only afford one body.

When doing outdoor fashion, it was pretty common to see trash bags hanging from tripods - polaroid generated a lot of trash, it was covered in goopy chemistry that could stain clothing or irritate sensitive skin. The fiber-optic backs were expensive products - about $1200 in today's money, plus dedicating a modern body - so the workflow above wasn't so much weddings and portraits, but more shooting for big US brands, agencies, annual reports, and so on.

I still have a Forscher ProBack on an 8008... can't really part with it! Very cool bit of ingenuity.

More info at this link.
 

M Carter

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Here's a phone shot of my 8008 with the NPC - you can see the strap for doing the first-frame pull on the side.

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mweintraub

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Because the sheet size was so huge compared to the 35 frame, there was a small nylon "strap" sticking out of the back of the proback. When you shot a frame, you'd pull the tab of the polaroid out until it was even with the end of the strap (not far enough to crush the chemistry packet), and then could shoot another bracket.

Why didn't I know this or think of this?!?
 

M Carter

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Why didn't I know this or think of this?!?

I bought mine brand new from NPC and it didn't come with any instructions... I had to call up a guy who had one and ask how to do the two-frames, he said "you didn't cut off that strap, did you?"
 

M Carter

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As long as I have it out, here's a shot showing the fiber optic block. Very nicely machined parts, too.

Interestingly enough, as I mentioned above, you would need to make a slight compensation for polaroid exposure when shooting film - usually 1/3 to 1/2 stop. Just today realized it was the same compensation for MF (no fiber optic, just direct path to the film plane) as it was for 35 with the Forscher. That fiber optic block didn't eat any light to speak of - pretty amazing, and never though of that until today.

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mweintraub

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I have one for the F5 that I shot one (1) frame with. It was cool, but sucked that it was so small. [Got it for $0.99 + s/h, can't beat that.] I'm going to try again with the diptych look.
 

M Carter

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I have one for the F5 that I shot one (1) frame with. It was cool, but sucked that it was so small. [Got it for $0.99 + s/h, can't beat that.] I'm going to try again with the diptych look.

If it's functional, they are pretty rare these days - you could likely get more than you paid for it!

As you may know, you can transfer pack film from camera to camera, too - just need a dark room or changing bag. Open the back, and make sure to sort of hold the stack of paper down gently when you swap to another back or camera.

I really still love the peel-apart film, something magical about it. And man, just like in the 80's and 90's - for some reason, when models see that stuff, they're like "I'd LOVE to do some nudes!"
 

mweintraub

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It's functional except has a little issue with the back lock thing. Yes, I've shot a frame, or maybe two, and transferred the pack via a changing bag to a different back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

M Carter

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It's functional except has a little issue with the back lock thing. Yes, I've shot a frame, or maybe two, and transferred the pack via a changing bag to a different back.

Most of the polaroid-centric parts, like the rollers, the back door, and the lock are common to any peel-apart camera or back. You should be able to pop a lock on it from a donor camera or MF back. Not 100% sure on that but it certainly seems that way.
 

mweintraub

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I meant the lock for the back to the F5 body. I think it's easily fixable as it might just need a little epoxy to hold the "rivet" in.

Edit: Do you know how long of a string was on those backs to stop the pull?
 

M Carter

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On mine it's a fabric strap - it's riveted to the metal "front" plate of the NPC (which is attaches to the modified Nikon back that attaches to the camera) and wraps around the hinge. From the outside edge of the hinge plate to the end, it's 2 5/8". If yours had a similar strap, I imagine you'd see rivet holes or some sort of evidence?
 

M Carter

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I found after a while I didn't even use it, just got used to the correct pull - but I went through cases of the stuff back in the day, I doubt I have that muscle memory any more!
 

mweintraub

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I found after a while I didn't even use it, just got used to the correct pull - but I went through cases of the stuff back in the day, I doubt I have that muscle memory any more!

Yeah, but I have to know how far to pull it out first. Then I'll learn it.
 
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