What film cleaner for the year 2020? For scanning.

PhilBurton · Feb 10, 2020

I need to clean and scan thousands and thousands of black and white negatives that were developed at home 40+ years ago and stored in strips of six in glassine envelopes. My photo collection also includes about 20 thousand slides stored in the boxes that cam back from Kodak or another lab, mostly Kodachrome but also some Ektachrome, that I want to finally clean them so I can scan them dust-free. There are also about 60 rolls of Plus-X and Tri-X exposed about 40 years ago and kept frozen in my freezer, and I want process all this film, and then scan and store these negatives as dust-free as possible.

I just read through years and years worth of threads on this forum about cleaning negatives and slides, but many of these products are no longer available, in part due to safety or environmental reasons. And each product seems to have its proponents and its strong detractors.

So in this year 2020, which of the following would you recommend to use or to avoid, and why?

91% Isopropyl Alcohol - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LNWC83U/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza?th=1 (Less expensive than the alternatives.)
Edwal Anti-Stat Film Cleaner - https://www.amazon.com/Edwal-Anti-S...00009R6YZ/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
PEC 12 - https://www.amazon.com/Photographic...ec12+photo+film+cleaner&qid=1581389046&sr=8-1 (Why does 2 bottles of this product cost almost 50% more than the single bottle item? https://www.amazon.com/Photographic-Solutions-Inc-795122010111-Emulsion/dp/B00009R72R/ref=sr_1_2?crid=5J4EY1JARZ76&keywords=photo+film+cleaner&qid=1581388087&sprefix=photo+film+,aps,213&sr=8-2 )
Something else entirely? A UK friend recommended Hama Cleaning Fluid, but as far as I can tell, it's available only from a few European stores and would be very expensive to ship to the USA.

Reading the warnings about the fumes from these products, in practice how do you use them safely? If they are that dangerous, why are they even sold to consumers?

Are PEC-Pads the best way to apply these cleaning fluids? What about micro-fiber cloths?

Any tools? What else should I know so I can make good decisions and get the best results?

BAC1967 · Feb 10, 2020

I just went through a few thousand slides. I lightly brushed them with a lens brush and gave them a few puffs of air, no liquids. It didn’t get every speck of dust but did get a lot of it.

runswithsizzers · Feb 10, 2020

If dust is the only thing that needs to be removed, I would not use anything other than air (Rocket Blower) and a soft brush. There are special brushes with anti-static fibers that may be helpful if you are working in low humidity.

The solvent / liquid film cleaners are more for fingerprints. So why fool around with solvents unless there is something that needs to be dissolved?

Not mentioned - but you may encounter fungus on old slides. I tried the old stand-bys, Edwal and PEC 12, but I did not find those to be effective for removing fungus.

PhilBurton · Feb 11, 2020

I've already tried to use a Rocket blower on some slides, and I had mixed success. I think the dust may be "glued on" and a solvent type cleaner may be needed. Also, some of the negatives do have smudges which may be old fingerprints.

gordrob · Feb 11, 2020

I am on a similar quest but the volume of slides that I had to deal with was more in the range of 4000 slides from the 60s on. I set up a projector with a stack loader and went through the slides and culled those that were not worth the time to scan or digitize. I use a Nikon 5000ED scanner and it takes time to scan the slides but the ICE program helps to clean up what is missed by using a camel hair brush and air bulb..
Most slides if stored in original boxes will probably not require that you use some sort of chemical cleaner. I had a few that will need some attention but most just need some type of ant-static brush or air bulb to remove and dust or the like. Do not use any aerosol canned air in case it spits out a residue that stains the slide or negative.
I am currently trying to see if I can digitize slides using a Canon 7D and some type of slide duplicator. I am trying to go this route in order to try and cut down the time involved in copying the slides.The slides that I want to print or save to pass on to family I will scan on the 5000ED.
I have a number of books of 35mm and 120 B&W negatives that also have to be gone through and either culled or either printed or scanned. I figure that these two projects will take me well into summer to complete.

PhilBurton · Feb 11, 2020

gordrob said:
I am on a similar quest but the volume of slides that I had to deal with was more in the range of 4000 slides from the 60s on. I set up a projector with a stack loader and went through the slides and culled those that were not worth the time to scan or digitize. I use a Nikon 5000ED scanner and it takes time to scan the slides but the ICE program helps to clean up what is missed by using a camel hair brush and air bulb..
Most slides if stored in original boxes will probably not require that you use some sort of chemical cleaner. I had a few that will need some attention but most just need some type of ant-static brush or air bulb to remove and dust or the like. Do not use any aerosol canned air in case it spits out a residue that stains the slide or negative.
I am currently trying to see if I can digitize slides using a Canon 7D and some type of slide duplicator. I am trying to go this route in order to try and cut down the time involved in copying the slides.The slides that I want to print or save to pass on to family I will scan on the 5000ED.
I have a number of books of 35mm and 120 B&W negatives that also have to be gone through and either culled or either printed or scanned. I figure that these two projects will take me well into summer to complete.

I too have a Nikon 5000ED scanner, with the SF-210 batch feeder. I imagine that I will use an old cheapo Logan slide table to do a cull, and then scan the rest.

BAC1967 · Feb 11, 2020

PhilBurton said:
I've already tried to use a Rocket blower on some slides, and I had mixed success. I think the dust may be "glued on" and a solvent type cleaner may be needed. Also, some of the negatives do have smudges which may be old fingerprints.

For me the brush is what really knocked the dust loose, the air just helped finish it off.

kevs · Feb 11, 2020

First of all, be gentle with your film. If the emulsion has deteriorated physically, it might be best to leave it alone and scan as best you can. In any case, scan before cleaning in case something goes wrong. Maybe practise on a less-important strip or slide to get your technique right.

A drop or two of the isopropyl alcohol can be used to remove stubborn greasy marks on the shiny side; use a soft, lint-free cloth. Before scanning, use a soft brush like a blower-brush to gently remove dust.

If the dust is on the shiny side of the film, simply brush it off or gently rub it off with a clean gloved finger. You could breathe on the film to get a little condensation then rub off light grease.

Don't spray any liquids on the dull emulsion side; unless it's particularly fragile, you can safely soak it for a few minutes in lukewarm water, then rub it gently with a finger, then rinse in another lot of fresh lukewarm water with a tiny drop of wetting agent added (just enough to make a bubble or two when disturbed). This will help it dry spot-free. Hang the neg to dry naturally in a clean, dust-free room. You want the water to drip off the film rather than pool on the surface, otherwise you'll get drying marks.

De-mount slides before cleaning. Cut 35 mm slides could be hung to dry on a lop of cotton threaded through the sprocket holes.

When you process the film, proceed as normal then hang the negs to dry naturally in a dust-free room. Don't use a blower or heater, which could blow dust everywhere! You don't need clinically clean conditions, just clean enough so dust doesn't land on the moist emulsion and get embedded.

Avoid using squeegee tongs or fingers to remove water, these can scratch your film.
The following links might be useful:
https://howtoscan.ca/scanning-tips/clean-negatives-before-scan-alcohol.php
https://www.wikihow.com/Clean-35mm-Slides

Good luck with your archiving project.

jtk · Feb 11, 2020

#1. Sort everything according to type asd condition.
#2. B&w is physically very different from color.
#4. Color negs are probably hopeless after C22, especially if early C41. Forget them.
#5. You need a Nikon scanner with Digital Ice and basic operational skills.

If your glassines are Agfa, congratulations.

pwitkop · Feb 11, 2020

Pec12 has been my go to for years. Usually I'd use it mostly for fingerprints, etc. For dust on most films an anti static brush and done air will do just fine though. Keep in mind dust removal works by scanning in IR to separate the dust from the image on the film, but it can't work correctly with film that has silver in the film (which is opaque in ir), which iirc includes Kodachrome as well as black and white. For those films cleaning is best before scanning and any cleanup needed done later after in Photoshop. There is software dust removal but it often removes fine detail

Wallendo · Feb 11, 2020

I treat the negatives with an air blower and then pulling the negative between my fingers while wearing cotton gloves.

I treat water drying marks with a brief water wash. Fingerprints generally clear with water and light pressure on the non-emulsion side.

For more severe problems, I scan the negatives at high resolution. If the scans are easily fixed with Lightroom, I don’t do anything else. I did have a recent experience with fungus developing on Kodachrome slides from a trip to Europe in 1982. These I handled by scanning first. I then cleaned the slides with PEC 12 to remove the fungus. The emulsion was thinned at the affected spots leaving white or blue holes, but the fungus was removed. Fortunately, most of the damage was correctable with Photoshop. I would only recommend this for important slides of negatives.

runswithsizzers · Feb 11, 2020

Phil, Because I am also interested in learning about scanning film, I've read a lot of the posts you've created going back to April 2019. I can't help but notice you've already posted a couple of questions about how to clean negatives/slides <here> <here> and <here> And the answers you are getting today are about the same as those posted back in April and October of 2019. You and I have also participated in dozens of discussions about film scanners, scanning software, dust removal, dSLR scanning, color negative inversion methods, etc. My thanks to Photrio members for their guidance and patience.

I am not trying to give you a hard time, or be a jerk, but I must respectfully submit: the only way to really learn what you need to know about scanning film is to roll up your sleeves and start scanning. I'm pretty sure you know enough by now to get started. And once you get started, your search for knowledge will change direction from the theoretical to the practical.

So, my advice would be to start scanning, the sooner, the better. After scanning a few dozen images, switch over to post processing, so you can properly evaluate your scanning technique. If you are unhappy with your results, forum members will be happy to help troubleshoot. No matter how much research you do before starting your project, I expect you will still need to adjust both your scanning methods and post processing workflow as you go along. There is no way to learn everything you need to know before you start. The real learning begins with hands-on experience and a folder full of actual results to process.

So: select>scan>post process>adapt>repeat - do that a few a few hundred times and you will be well on your way.

PhilBurton · Feb 12, 2020

jtk said:
#1. Sort everything according to type asd condition.
#2. B&w is physically very different from color.
#4. Color negs are probably hopeless after C22, especially if early C41. Forget them.

Please explain.

#5. You need a Nikon scanner with Digital Ice and basic operational skills.

I have a Nikon 5000ED scanner. What are "operational skills?"

If your glassines are Agfa, congratulations.

I honestly don't know. They came with the Negafile negative storage boxes I bought maybe 50+ years ago. (I started doing B&W and processing at home at an early age.)

jmoche · Feb 12, 2020

I've accomplished a similar task. I used both Edwal and PEC-12. I think the PEC did a generally better job at removing crud, but the fumes are difficult to deal with. An open window helps, but then you need to deal with outside dust that seems to target your freshly-cleaned negs from miles away. As for those glassine envelopes, I wish I had never met them. Some sort of darkroom chemical spilled onto some of my negs 40 years ago, and went unnoticed for 35 years. The glassine literally became part of the negatives, attaching itself to the emulsion. Even when I was able to remove the paper from the emulsion, it left impressions in the emulsion that can't be fixed. I even took a few of the damaged negs and left them in water until the emulsion separated from the base and floated to the surface of the water. Then I floated the disembodied image to a glass slide. The damage was as obvious as ever. Good luck with your project!

jvo · Feb 13, 2020

i have to admire your energy/desire to take on the project - just reading about it exhausted me. someone else is gonna be dealing with my negatives.. probably quickly disposed off - the archival boxes not even opened!

good luck.

JRoz · Nov 9, 2024

pwitkop said:
Pec12 has been my go to for years. Usually I'd use it mostly for fingerprints, etc. For dust on most films an anti static brush and done air will do just fine though. Keep in mind dust removal works by scanning in IR to separate the dust from the image on the film, but it can't work correctly with film that has silver in the film (which is opaque in ir), which iirc includes Kodachrome as well as black and white. For those films cleaning is best before scanning and any cleanup needed done later after in Photoshop. There is software dust removal but it often removes fine detail

JRoz · Nov 9, 2024

Hi,
Thanks for your helpful post. I noticed you use PEC12. Have you tried using it for water stains on negs? On another site, it was recommended but in all of PEC12's advertising, it says that it's not suitable for water stains. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks.

ic-racer · Nov 9, 2024

I have a similar project, I need to record thousands of digital images onto B&W film for preservation. I'm imaging from a computer monitor onto 120 film and cleaining the front surface of the monitor with Windex and a microfiber cloth.

What film cleaner for the year 2020? For scanning.

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