What exposure to shoot a barn on a dark country road with just headlights

swanlake1 · Oct 18, 2015

Hi everyone...there is a barn down the road that looks great all lit up with just the headlights of my car when I drive by. I want to shoot it tonight with ISO 3200 B&W film. No tripod, just handheld, so it's best to be over 1/15 - 1/30 of a second. My lens is 50mm F/1.4 and I'd like to get a sharp image, so not so wide open.

My question is what aperture and shutter speed will get the best image. Thanks!

RobC · Oct 18, 2015

Ahem, without taking a proper light reading its totally guesswork. You must go there and see what your light meter tells you and act accordingly. Bracket over and under in 1 stop increments just to be sure you get something useable.

To get all of barn in shot then you should be far enough back to be able to use a wide aperture f2.8 I rekon but it depends how big the barn is as to how far back you'll be.

If you have spot metering in your camera or a spot meter, then meter a highlight in which you want full textural detail and open up 1 1/2 stops from there and try that. Then bracket up and down from that point.

Good luck.

swanlake1 · Oct 18, 2015

Thanks, I don't want to meter. I'm happy with how much light will be captured and and just want to test taking the shot without metering...actually, I find my meter very hard to read in dark conditions.

I'll try f2.8 at 1/60 and then bracket.

pentaxuser · Oct 18, 2015

Unless you have a rough idea as to how car headlights compare with the sun in terms of exposure and you don't want to meter then I'd bracket extensively. If the headlights are the very powerful high energy ones and the only part of the barn you want detail in is that in the full glare of the lights then the exposure required with D3200( shot at 3200?) might be less than you think.

It will also depend on how close the headlights are to the barn walls

Too many unknowns for me but it's your shot

pentaxuser

RobC · Oct 18, 2015

download following, print, cut out and assemble.

It will tell you that for indoor lighting using EI3200 1/125 second at F2.8 is about right so you're in the right ball park with your 1/60 at F2.8. With bracketing you should get one good exposure.

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/download.asp?n=2344&f=201411191457492187.pdf

swanlake1 · Oct 18, 2015

I want a shot like this:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2005_winter_road_full_beam.jpg

with the barn in the distance...maybe 100 feet away. The problem with this shot is there aren't enough details in the shadows in the top of the photo.

swanlake1 · Oct 18, 2015

RobC said:
download following, print, cut out and assemble.

It will tell you that for indoor lighting using EI3200 1/125 second at F2.8 is about right so you're in the right ball park with your 1/60 at F2.8. With bracketing you should get one good exposure.

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/download.asp?n=2344&f=201411191457492187.pdf

Good info, thanks!

RobC · Oct 18, 2015

well it depends how close the car is to the barn. If its a 100ft away then the barn will be dimly lit. The inverse law says that if you double distance you get a quarter of the brightness. i.e. a 2 stop reduction. So if we guesstimate that at 6 feet from light source we lose 2 stops and twelve feet another two stops and 25 feet another two stops and at 50 feet another two stops and at 100 feet another 2 stops. So at 100 feet you have lost about 10 stops of brighness from right in front of the car lights.
Again, above is only a guesstimate.

Note: inverse sqaure law is only applicable to point source lights. A car light is close enough to being a point source over a distance of 100 feet I think.

swanlake1 · Oct 18, 2015

ah...I knew this was complicated. I'm going to have to bracket like crazy!

MattKing · Oct 18, 2015

I would suggest that you do take meter readings, and note the combination of what you metered, what combinations you tried and what the results were.

That will help you in the future - both when you are using your meter, and when you are just estimating exposure.

By the way, if you meter for the Ilford 3200 film at 3200, you are using an Exposure Index (EI). That film has an actual ISO speed of 1000. It has, however, been designed to perform well when it is underexposed: when you use EIs higher than 1000 (like 3200).

removed account4 · Oct 18, 2015

about 1/30 wide open, maybe 1/15
bracket and use a tripod if you are shaky

good luck !

swanlake1 · Oct 18, 2015

jnanian said:
about 1/30 wide open, maybe 1/15
bracket and use a tripod if you are shaky

good luck !

thanks...exactly what I was thinking

RobC · Oct 18, 2015

MattKing said:
I would suggest that you do take meter readings, and note the combination of what you metered, what combinations you tried and what the results were.

That will help you in the future - both when you are using your meter, and when you are just estimating exposure.

By the way, if you meter for the Ilford 3200 film at 3200, you are using an Exposure Index (EI). That film has an actual ISO speed of 1000. It has, however, been designed to perform well when it is underexposed: when you use EIs higher than 1000 (like 3200).

+1

And if you are using Ilford Delta 3200 at EI3200 then Ilford Microphen used at stock dilution will give you the full 3200 speed as per ilfords recommendation in the film datasheet.

RobC · Oct 18, 2015

swanlake1 said:
I want a shot like this:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2005_winter_road_full_beam.jpg

with the barn in the distance...maybe 100 feet away. The problem with this shot is there aren't enough details in the shadows in the top of the photo.

Thats becasue car lights are designed to produce a beam and do not spread light wider than they are designed to do. You may need to put your car on an up slope to get any light on top of barn. Again it depends on height of barn and distance of car.

And note that becasue they are designed to produce a beam they don't conform to inverse square law exactly but as I said, over 100 feet, above was my best guesstimate. Bracket.

swanlake1 · Oct 18, 2015

Thanks RobC, I appreciate your help. It's always the case that what I see and the shot my camera takes are two different things...that's why I'm asking around to get some good input on this.

MattKing · Oct 18, 2015

It occurs to me that an incident meter reading taken at the barn door and pointing back to the lights would work perfectly.

And you would get some healthy exercise too!

benjiboy · Oct 18, 2015

About two weeks.

removed account4 · Oct 18, 2015

silveror0 said:
One thing's for sure. The Sunny 16 Rule won't help at all in this scenario.

it does help but experience helps more ...

i know how bright noonday sun is as it shines and
makes a sharp dark shadow on my hand
i also know that at 30 feet headlights are going to be not bright
most likely they will be about 8 or 9 times as dim ( even high beams )

i know i know that a cafe and coffee in the morning is 1/15 wide open
AND
i know that a sodium vapor lamp ( parking lot double pedistal / square cobra lamp 40 feet up )
and iso 100 film is f22 for 45 seconds
and that street light shadows on a brick wall with iso 3200 film is 1/30 wide open ...
so it isn't too hard to extrapolate 1600 dim, 30 feet barn
wide open and 1/15 or 1/30th a second ...

YMMV

Doremus Scudder · Oct 19, 2015

Rest your camera on the door or the roof of your car or against a tree or whatever if you need stability at lower speeds. Since you don't want to meter, just bracket like hell. I'm a Zonie, but that's what I'd do if I weren't sure of exposure. You're shooting 135 I assume, so it's not like you're spending $10 a sheet.

Don't you have an in-camera meter to even give you a starting point? Still, bracket like hell...

Doremus

swanlake1 · Oct 19, 2015

jnanian said:
it does help but experience helps more ...

i know how bright noonday sun is as it shines and
makes a sharp dark shadow on my hand
i also know that at 30 feet headlights are going to be not bright
most likely they will be about 8 or 9 times as dim ( even high beams )

i know i know that a cafe and coffee in the morning is 1/15 wide open
AND
i know that a sodium vapor lamp ( parking lot double pedistal / square cobra lamp 40 feet up )
and iso 100 film is f22 for 45 seconds
and that street light shadows on a brick wall with iso 3200 film is 1/30 wide open ...
so it isn't too hard to extrapolate 1600 dim, 30 feet barn
wide open and 1/15 or 1/30th a second ...

YMMV

totally great off-the-cuff calculations...I'm in awe!

removed account4 · Oct 19, 2015

swanlake1 said:
totally great off-the-cuff calculations...I'm in awe!

you are very kind,
but bracket like mad because
bulbs are different now
and your film is not tmz3200,
and you are not using sprint film developer
so what seems A-OK to me might be way off for you...

( that's the YMMV part )

John Koehrer · Oct 19, 2015

Check out "painting with light" Essentially the camera is set on B and the subject is lighted with
a portable flash from various locations near the scene.

MartinCrabtree · Oct 20, 2015

Would an incident reading at the doors do the job for a target?

RalphLambrecht · Oct 20, 2015

Well, good luck

AlexBC · Nov 28, 2015

If you can't use a light meter, I'd recommend Fred Parker's Ultimate Exposure Computer. It won't have your exact scenario of course, but it will hopefully get you into an accurate bracket range. Really though, I recommend a meter to avoid shooting more than you have to.

http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.html

What exposure to shoot a barn on a dark country road with just headlights

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What exposure to shoot a barn on a dark country road with just headlights

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