What exactly is the requirements of a Kallitype developer?

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grainyvision

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One additional discovery is that TEA+hydroxide solution will readily reduce ferrous sulfate to metallic iron, as confirmed by using a magnet to confirm it is iron and not ferric hydroxide which fell out of solution. This does NOT happen on addition of ferric sulfate however. I do not have a good way to test if this happens with ferrous oxalate (only have ferric).

I found one paper which discussed TEA+silver nitrate reaction, but it was fairly unclear. It seems TEA will first complex with silver nitrate, then it will form silver metal and throw off the nitrate, and then with enough time eventually form silver oxide. However, this does not explain the formation of brown precipitate followed by it going into solution.

One interesting test I did was adding benzotriazole to the developer solution. It resulted in immediate precipitate of silver. Upon adding thiosulfate, it all went back into solution. I wasn't aware benzotriazole would cause a reaction like this. Paper development using the thiosulfate containing solution did actually work, but the thiosulfate was faster at bleaching the image than the TEA at complexing with ferric salts, so the trade off is that you go quick and either get orange whites from ferric hydroxide/salts or go slow and lose density in shadows and get an overall grainy appearance.

I also how pH level works, and seems that hydroxide is not actually ideal for this but some alkali is definitely needed. At neutral TEA ph (~10) the solution goes off very quickly due to ferric solubility limits, but also gave much less risk of solarization. At hydroxide pH (14), the solution lasts much longer but much more likely to give solarization. At carbonate pH (~12), solarization was slightly less but definitely still there. One interesting note however is that solarization can potentially be written off as a "wet and untoned" phenomena. The appearance of solarization becomes much less obvious when dry and nearly invisible when toned with a gold toner. However, I also tried a few other hail mary chemical additions to increase dmax and lower solarization risk. One really interesting addition is PEG-3350 (easily available as MiraLAX in the USA). PEG in general is talked about in some of those silver + TEA nanoparticle papers, so decided to see what would happen. A small addition resulted in slight speed decrease, slight increase in contrast (clipping highlights) and significant decrease in in solarization and increase in dmax. However, a larger addition of PEG caused these benefits to be eliminated and instead was left with increased solarization and decrease in overall contrast. PEG is a pretty weird chemical that moderates how silver salts are reduced and seems to moderate only "surface" and not "chemical" development (as observed and documented in lith developers), however it seems little is understood about how the chemistry around that really works.

I also tried using the TEA solution without fixer, clearing in a more dilute TEA+hydroxide solution, and then rinsing for a while. This resulted in good looking prints, but left silver salts that seemed to not be light sensitive behind as confirmed by putting into an ascorbic acid developer. Exposure by UV lamp did not result in any printing out of the image. I'm unsure fixing can be safely skipped or not due to this effect.

Also one other important factor is that the TEA developer initially will produce a very deep contrasty image, but as development progresses orange/red solarization takes out the deep black tones and additional highlight density comes in. This is in contrast to other non-reductive kallitype developers like citrate, where the full image is "done" within seconds. Leaving the print for 5m vs 2.5m resutls in noticeable decrease in dmax. This seems to indicate the TEA will eat away at the silver metal that develops, but despite TEA often being called a silver solvent, I've not been able to confirm this in anyway. A piece of dmax developed/fixed film resulted in no evident density change over ~20m in the solution. This could alternatively be the brown precipitate seen with silver nitrate+TEA going into solution slowly, but that just makes me question even more what that brown precipitate actually is, and if it's safe to keep in the image if there were some way to selectively make it insoluble

Also the non-ideal is likely buffered. It will fog with any developer tested. However, I've also gotten great results from a known to be buffered paper in this, with perfect white highlights. I only have two papers really that give good results to mess around with (more on order). One is Arches watercolor HP and the other is H(some german name) platinum rag. watercolor is known to be buffered and "unsuitable" for kallitype/platinum but works better than the platinum rag for me in general (using TEA, TEA-acetate, or oxalate), giving deeper dmax and cleaner whites. I suspect the non-ideal paper may contain small amounts of salt such as sodium chloride which would definitely produce fog in the TEA developer at least
 

fgorga

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I'd definitely be interested in the equations around it.

Sorry for the delay in my reply.

Here is the acid/base chemistry involved... but first some abbreviated chemical structures

Triethanolamine looks like this... (HOCH2CH2)3N
and in abbreviated for we can write HOEt3N


Acetic acid looks like this.... HOC=O which we can abbreviate as HOAc
|
CH3

Tirethanolamine is a base which can "pick up" a proton (H+) from an acid resulting in the formation of the triethanolammonium ion.... HOEt3N+H

Acetic acid (as it name implies) is an acid which can "give up" a proton to a base resulting in the formation of the acetate ion... -OAc

Thus, when you mix the two compounds together is looks like this...

HOEt3N + HOAc ----> HOEt3N+H + -OAc

In terms of iron binding, it is the oxygens of the TEA that interact with the Fe2+ or Fe3+ ions. Since the the basic form of the amine is neutral it would be expected to interact more tightly with the positively charged iron than would the ammonium form which is already positively charged.

I hope that that is clear and the the structures make some sense... it is had to write chemical structures with only ASCII characters.
 

fgorga

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WOW! A lot of interesting experimentation. I hope that you are making progress towards whatever goal you are wanting.

I'm going to make a few comments on the chemistry as I see it by copying parts of your post and adding my comment in italics. Remember thought, my area of expertise is biochemistry not inorganic chemistry!

I found one paper which discussed TEA+silver nitrate reaction, but it was fairly unclear. It seems TEA will first complex with silver nitrate, then it will form silver metal and throw off the nitrate, and then with enough time eventually form silver oxide. However, this does not explain the formation of brown precipitate followed by it going into solution.

This does not make sense from an chemical point of view... when you add sliver nitrate to water is fully dissociates into the silver cation and the nitrate anion.

I also how pH level works, and seems that hydroxide is not actually ideal for this but some alkali is definitely needed. At neutral TEA ph (~10) the solution goes off very quickly due to ferric solubility limits, but also gave much less risk of solarization. At hydroxide pH (14), the solution lasts much longer but much more likely to give solarization. At carbonate pH (~12), solarization was slightly less but definitely still there. One interesting note however is that solarization can potentially be written off as a "wet and untoned" phenomena. The appearance of solarization becomes much less obvious when dry and nearly invisible when toned with a gold toner.

I would guess that what you are seeing here is mainly a pH effect and not really an effect of the specific base used. All of the species you mention (TEA, Hydroxide and carbonate) are bases that react with water to increase the pH. Bases have differing strengths which will result in differing pHs when added to water at the same concentration. In principle one could see if the effect you are seeing at the result of pH changes by sticking with a single base and varying its concentration to make solutions of different pHs.

However, I also tried a few other hail mary chemical additions to increase dmax and lower solarization risk. One really interesting addition is PEG-3350 (easily available as MiraLAX in the USA). PEG in general is talked about in some of those silver + TEA nanoparticle papers, so decided to see what would happen. A small addition resulted in slight speed decrease, slight increase in contrast (clipping highlights) and significant decrease in in solarization and increase in dmax. However, a larger addition of PEG caused these benefits to be eliminated and instead was left with increased solarization and decrease in overall contrast. PEG is a pretty weird chemical that moderates how silver salts are reduced and seems to moderate only "surface" and not "chemical" development (as observed and documented in lith developers), however it seems little is understood about how the chemistry around that really works.

I have no real idea on what is going on here, but I can make a few observations....

1) What concentrations of PEG are we talking about? If the concentration is high enough then its presences will alter all of the other chemistry going on by effectively decreasing the amount of water present (more precisely you are changing the "activity" of the water)

2) PEG-3350 is a relatively large molecule compared to all of the other species present. Thus one might expects that it would not enter the paper in the same way as the smaller molecules. This might (and I stress might, I have no evidence) for the surface effect you mention.

3) PEG is rich in oxygen molecules that can, in principle, interact with any of the positive ions present thereby altering their availability for other reactions.


I hope that these ramblings are of some use to you!
 

nmp

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Some more conjectures and caveats from me:


Easy way to get some ferrous oxalate is coat your ferric oxalate on the paper and give it a good long UV exposure - my favorite is leaving it out in the sun and see the color change. Wash the ferric off in water and you have a ferrous oxalate paper.


Benzotriazole can lose a proton and bond with silver - that's the mechanism by which it acts as a corrosion inhibitor for silver. May be you are seeing not pure silver precipitate but the benzotriazole salt.


Apparently, PEG is a reducing agent for silver nitrate - can form silver nano-particles with silver nitrate all by itself, also acting as a stabilizer for them (although I am not sure the conditions cited in literature are same as yours.) So a whole lot of things might be happening here in addition to the physical aspects of adding a viscous polymer in the mix, as covered by Frank above.


I am not sure I understand how you know there was silver salt left over if none of tests came out positive.


This could be the Achilles's heel for using TEA based developer? Also silver solvency perhaps dependent on the form of silver - collodial vs crystalline as in the silver gelatin film?


Hahnemuhle.

Predicting papers can be tricky, so I have learned - not knowing what all chemicals they put in. May be the water used in manufacturing contained some salts. Also buffer accessibility can be affected by sizing - if there is external sizing, perhaps the chalk is not as readily available at the surface. I have seen this manifested in different Dmax outcomes in various papers for making salt-free salt prints. Silver nitrate will form insoluble silver carbonate which would also behave in the same manner as silver chloride vs TEA etc.

:Niranjan.
 
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grainyvision

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A lot posted here while I was gone! Thanks for the chemistry info of what could be going on here!

So the silver salts left behind were confirmed just by putting it into a regular developer (ie for silver halide paper), the image dmin darkened significantly. However, leaving such a print in light for a long time didn't seem to have much if any effect, so maybe they're rendered not sensitive to light (but still susceptible to strong reducers).

And through testing a few more papers, some of these definitely are ideal for the TEA based developer and not at all with an acetate+tartaric acid developer. The latter produced red fog which could not be cleared in the developer nor in a citric acid bath. Putting the print into the TEA based developer afterwards resulted in significant clearing of the dmin, but still not perfect after several minutes. However, using the TEA developer initially produced a clear white dmin. The bigger risk I see in testing a few new papers is that the TEA developer causing silver nitrate to be soluble allows for the silver to sink into the paper all the way to the back, sometimes making small grey spots in the image on certain papers. To prevent this in theory, it'd be ideal to use a salt that causes the silver nitrate to immediately precipitate rather than go into solution. However, doing this seems to give silver fog in the dmin. One interesting salt addition though is sulfite, which does cause a silver salt to precipitate out, but to also become soluble again but much more slowly than TEA alone. Testing a combo of water+TEA+sulfite+carbonate resulted in good dmin, but the grey spots remain but show up much later in the development process.

One really aggressive way to clear any orange staining is dilute hydrochloric acid, but very much time at all in this will result in removal of silver and buffered papers will bubble and mottle the texture of the paper.

The concentration of PEG-3350 used was 10ml of a 1% solution added to ~400ml of developer for improved results, but 40ml being too much

One thing I haven't tested at all yet is how much TEA I actually need and if more or less would improve things. Right now I'm using ~120ml of TEA and making 400ml of solution total
 
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