What E6 kits are you guys using?

GaryFlorida · May 5, 2015

Ive recently learned that due to lack of demand and not safety issues, many E6 kits are no longer available. What are you guys using and what is giving you the best results?

I feel like we are all floatiing and bobbing in the ocean, desperately grouping together for safety, hanging on to various bits of driftwood and buoyant debris around a duct taped life raft trying to keep film alive.

Thanks
Gary

Michael Howard · May 5, 2015

There are only 2 kits left that are readily available in the US. The Tetenal kit and the Unicolor/Arista kit. Both are available at Freestyle. For stability, you have to add a formalin stabilizer to the Unicolor kit, it doesn't come with one. The Tetenal does, but it is quite expensive compared to the Unicolor. I have used both with good success. I have no idea what is available to the rest of the world. I asked Film Ferrania if they planned any kind of new kit when they resurrect their E6 films, I only got the answer that "they are monitoring the need" for that. I really think they would have a better possibility of success if they were to package film/kit together, say maybe 8 rolls +kit to develop.

RobC · May 5, 2015

Fuji still supply a 5 litre E6 kit if you look around. Its certainly available in the UK so I would be very surprised if its not available in the US.

wildbill · May 5, 2015

RobC said:
Fuji still supply a 5 litre E6 kit if you look around. Its certainly available in the UK so I would be very surprised if its not available in the US.

It's not sold here.
Yes, you can get anything you want shipped here but it's going to be very costly. There is a member or two who are using the fuji kit here but I don't recall the price. Not worth it for me.

I'm using the Tetenal kits. I see no reason to use the Arista kit.

RobC · May 5, 2015

wildbill said:
It's not sold here.
Yes, you can get anything you want shipped here but it's going to be very costly. There is a member or two who are using the fuji kit here but I don't recall the price. Not worth it for me.

I'm using the Tetenal kits. I see no reason to use the Arista kit.

I think because fuji have their Fuji Europe regional setup, providing Fuji Europe order sufficent quantity from Japan they can still do it. I guess there isn't enough demand in the US for Fujifilm USA to order large enough quantities which is the reason I was told by Fuji UK that some of their products aren't supplied to some regions.

The kit can be had for £110.46 in the UK which is enough for around 40 35mm films. Not cheap even here. I hate to think what shipping to US would be.

But you can buy the individual chemicals in the US but only in larger quantities by the look of it.

destroya · May 5, 2015

the only one available, the tetenal kit from freestyle. The results are very good and I'm happy, but if i could get the 6 bath kit I would do it. I emailed fuji chemicals in the USA and they said that there is not enough demand for it to sell it here. I asked when the last time the checked that out (demand) and they said 2004 10 years aog, so unless tetenal starts to offer a full 6 bath kit dont expect to be able to get one from US retail any time soon.

you can order the full fuji kit from Europe, but its cost about $250 which includes shipping. not a great deal at more than twice the cost of the tetenal kit.

wildbill · May 5, 2015

Destroya, just to clarify:http://www.freestylephoto.biz/category/13-Chemicals/Color-Chemicals?attr[]=30-141
it's already been said, there are two different kits readily available. NOT one.

as far as the fuji kits, I tried to gather enough interest for Jeff at badgergraphic.com to do a order a couple years ago and it was a no go. we couldn't even get a minimum order quantity from fuji. Plenty of threads on that subject.

gone · May 5, 2015

"I feel like we are all floatiing and bobbing in the ocean, desperately grouping together for safety, hanging on to various bits of driftwood and buoyant debris around a duct taped life raft....."

I can't help you on the film question, but that's one of the most accurate statements on the nature of reality that I have heard in quite a while. Gary, you're a Zen man in the making.

PittP · May 5, 2015

Greeetings,
With regards to slides, Gary, your analogy is spot on - if only the tape keeping things together really was duct tape and not just some scotch cello stuff...
To your question: I have had good results with the Tetenal kit. Slides seem to be as stable as from commercial labs (my oldest to compare have ~10 years).
In practical use, the kit is expensive. In _my_ experience, I can reuse the developer once, not two times (as suggested in the manual). Also storage life is limited: I have seen crystals forming in the 1st Dev before one year was over (from production, see number on the box); one part of the Blix loves to part with its sulfuric components... whatever else may happen there? Towards the end, development becomes a gamble - and I can't do 60 films from the 5-L kit, may be just 35-40. (Still cheaper than 3 1-L kits.) If you shoot slide films in the hundreds, well, your mileage may be better!
Conclusion: Tetenal as a last resort.
In Germany recently I had a few rolls developed through a drug store chain (name ?? - they were selling even BW and slide films!) - 2 Euros/roll and no fault to find. Where available, I'd think this would be the more convenient and more economic option.
Good light all times!

Ricardo Miranda · May 5, 2015

Michael Howard said:
I asked Film Ferrania if they planned any kind of new kit when they resurrect their E6 films, I only got the answer that "they are monitoring the need" for that. I really think they would have a better possibility of success if they were to package film/kit together, say maybe 8 rolls +kit to develop.

Perhaps they don't have the capability to produce such chemistry? Or maybe they never did it before, not for the consumer market?
Did you asked that or tried to find out what did they do before closing doors a few years ago?
Remember they are only re-introducing films they did in the past, for the time being at least.

Michael Howard · May 6, 2015

I asked this question to them as a response to their statement on "availability of processing" on their website. I see no need for them to make it on their own, they could contract that out. The key to me would be making the processing kit AS available as their film. Now, if Freestyle ends up being the US distributor for Film Ferrania, it's kind of moot, since Freestyle also has the kits. I just think it would be very nice to be able to buy it that way.

I am most worried about the disconnect between film availability and processing kits. I just don't see many people using slide film and not processing it at home themselves. I could be very wrong.

GaryFlorida · May 6, 2015

Michael Howard said:
I asked this question to them as a response to their statement on "availability of processing" on their website. I see no need for them to make it on their own, they could contract that out. The key to me would be making the processing kit AS available as their film. Now, if Freestyle ends up being the US distributor for Film Ferrania, it's kind of moot, since Freestyle also has the kits. I just think it would be very nice to be able to buy it that way.

I am most worried about the disconnect between film availability and processing kits. I just don't see many people using slide film and not processing it at home themselves. I could be very wrong.

Ken Rockwell advises to buy the film, shoot it and send it off to one of his affiliates who will then develop it, scan it , mount them and send it all back to you all nice and pretty and perfect. I would really like to do it myself though. Thats got to be expensive for all that. I mean film 10 bucks and then processing must be another 20 or more. Its hard to justify that kind of cash.

From what I understand if you get a nice 5L kit you can get 50 rolls out of it. Plus nobody touched it but you so it can be all your work. Sure someone could say that you did not mine the chemicals from the ground, formulate them, mix them and create the processing chemicals. No I did not mine the silver and make the film from scratch. I suppose at some point you have to let someone else into the workflow but still. I like opening the tank and seeing my pictures. Its part of the fun.

eng1er · May 6, 2015

GaryFlorida said:
Ken Rockwell advises

Ken Rockwell should be taken with the proverbial NaCl fragments. You're better off mining advice on this forum. That's not to say that the quality doesn't vary here as well, but hang around a while and you'll start to figure out who to listen to and who to ignore. Here, the data is "peer-reviewed" so to speak.

Xmas · May 6, 2015

E6 is more steps than C41 but even I have done it when there were drop off and collect locals.

Think you can get 50 out of the Fuji kit but my contact batches his don't know shelf life for part used storage.

There were drop off points local last year it may be cheaper to get returned unmounted especially if there are night scenes.

Xmas · May 6, 2015

Michael Howard said:
... I really think they would have a better possibility of success if they were to package film/kit together, say maybe 8 rolls +kit to develop.

Ilford don't do pro packs of 120 any more to reduce inventory costs?
8x 135 + kit was not done in past...
There used to be 24/7 labs for pros...

Xmas · May 6, 2015

Ricardo Miranda said:
Perhaps they don't have the capability to produce such chemistry? Or maybe they never did it before, not for the consumer market?
...

I think all the raw chemicals are available to scratch mix if we ordered from Ge supplier and they would still ship.
But while the Fuji kit is available I'd not trouble. I keep the raw C41 chemicals to hand for the bulk C41 in fridge.

And there are still labs in London.

destroya · May 6, 2015

wildbill said:
Destroya, just to clarify:http://www.freestylephoto.biz/category/13-Chemicals/Color-Chemicals?attr[]=30-141
it's already been said, there are two different kits readily available. NOT one.

sorry, I dont consider a kit with no real stabilizer a kit to even consider. but thats just me.

Roger Cole · May 7, 2015

Michael Howard said:
There are only 2 kits left that are readily available in the US. The Tetenal kit and the Unicolor/Arista kit. Both are available at Freestyle. For stability, you have to add a formalin stabilizer to the Unicolor kit, it doesn't come with one. The Tetenal does, but it is quite expensive compared to the Unicolor. I have used both with good success. I have no idea what is available to the rest of the world. I asked Film Ferrania if they planned any kind of new kit when they resurrect their E6 films, I only got the answer that "they are monitoring the need" for that. I really think they would have a better possibility of success if they were to package film/kit together, say maybe 8 rolls +kit to develop.

In the largest size, which is the most economical way to buy these, the Tetenal is less expensive per ounce than the Unicolor/Arista.

Arista 1 Gallon kit - $78.49 / 128 ounces = $0.613/ounce
Tetenal 5L kit - $99.99 / 169 ounces = $0.591/ounce

The smaller sizes are a different story with the Arista 1QT kit indeed being much less expensive than the Tetenal 1L. But I think you'd have to have a screw loose to buy the Tetenal 1L kit for $67.49 when the 5L kit, five times as much chemistry, is only about 50% more money.

When I used to do E6 I'd mix 8 ounces at a time and squeeze the air out of the concentrate bottles. I used a gallon (Unicolor in those days) kit down to the dregs, taking over a year to do it, and the last bit worked as well as the first.

Roger Cole · May 7, 2015

GaryFlorida said:
Ken Rockwell advises to buy the film, shoot it and send it off to one of his affiliates who will then develop it, scan it , mount them and send it all back to you all nice and pretty and perfect. I would really like to do it myself though. Thats got to be expensive for all that. I mean film 10 bucks and then processing must be another 20 or more. Its hard to justify that kind of cash.

From what I understand if you get a nice 5L kit you can get 50 rolls out of it. Plus nobody touched it but you so it can be all your work. Sure someone could say that you did not mine the chemicals from the ground, formulate them, mix them and create the processing chemicals. No I did not mine the silver and make the film from scratch. I suppose at some point you have to let someone else into the workflow but still. I like opening the tank and seeing my pictures. Its part of the fun.

While it is less expensive to do it yourself, having it done does not cost nearly twenty dollars. I send mine to Dwayne's, which charges $8.95 for a 36 exposure roll. Shipping is expensive on the first roll ($4.50) but each additional roll is just .50. I usually send four or more, which makes the shipping average out to $1.50 roll for four rolls, less for even more rolls. Scans are an additional $4.95 per roll. I'm sure other labs are competitive, some a bit more and some probably less:

http://www.dwaynesphoto.com/newsite2006/slide-film.html

GaryFlorida · May 7, 2015

Roger Cole said:
While it is less expensive to do it yourself, having it done does not cost nearly twenty dollars. I send mine to Dwayne's, which charges $8.95 for a 36 exposure roll. Shipping is expensive on the first roll ($4.50) but each additional roll is just .50. I usually send four or more, which makes the shipping average out to $1.50 roll for four rolls, less for even more rolls. Scans are an additional $4.95 per roll. I'm sure other labs are competitive, some a bit more and some probably less:

http://www.dwaynesphoto.com/newsite2006/slide-film.html

What would the total cost at Dwaynes for 5 rolls, process, scan, mount and ship?

ArgentixCa · May 7, 2015

Hi everybody!
This thread caught my attention, due mainly to the fact that I do have some interest in this product.
I am not neutral, selling this product, and asked to my supplier - also the manufacturer - some detail about the formalin need.

Here is a part of the email exchange we had.

We discontinued the use of a formalin stabilizer many years ago when people had fears of the chemical as a carcinogen.(which was never proven one way or the other).
Formeldahyde is still a very good preservative for E6 films, but, it is generally not available or easy for an end user to purchase.
The stabilizer was just formalin plus photo flo.

Over the years Kodak and others were able to make much better dyes that were much more stable and they discontinued the formalin type stabilizers as well for both C41 and E6.
We went to a different type of stabilizer as did Kodak. The new stabilizer is very much the same as the powder one in the C41 powder kits. This consists of hexamine and Photo flo.
We do package this as a liquid for our liquid C41 and E6 kits.
Kodak and others found hexamine to be a good replacement for conventional formalin stabilizers.

In reality, the most critical thing affecting the stability of an E6 film is a thorough washing to rid the film of residual bleach fix.
[Unquote]

I hope this information will be helpful.

Take care!

wildbill · May 7, 2015

I buy formalin on ebay.

Roger Cole · May 8, 2015

GaryFlorida said:
What would the total cost at Dwaynes for 5 rolls, process, scan, mount and ship?

$76 if I'm adding correctly. Sounds about what I pay.

$15.20 per roll but the scans are a large part of that. The E6 kit won't help you with that You still need to scan it or have it done. A 35mm film scanner is cheap if you want to do your own scanning and save $4.95 per roll.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk and 100% recycled electrons - because I care.

GaryFlorida · May 8, 2015

Roger Cole said:
$76 if I'm adding correctly. Sounds about what I pay.

$15.20 per roll but the scans are a large part of that. The E6 kit won't help you with that You still need to scan it or have it done. A 35mm film scanner is cheap if you want to do your own scanning and save $4.95 per roll.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk and 100% recycled electrons - because I care.

what 35mm film scanner do you advise?

sagai · May 9, 2015

GaryFlorida said:
what 35mm film scanner do you advise?

I would go for the one takes the most number of frames.
I have the v370, but I keep looking at the one class up one that takes more than one 6 frames strip.
It costs more, saves your time too whilst scanning.

What E6 kits are you guys using?

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