What do you think of this?

tommy5c · Sep 24, 2007

I think this should almost be a case study on the fantasy of the solider/hero. the images seem like they are pulled from a lot of Vietnam/gulf war movie sets. I'm as offended at the irreverence as i am in awe of the idea even being produced. i don't know quite how to react, has our society gone to the point where we must de-sensitize in order to cope with world politics. - 2 cents from the peanut gallery.

jd callow · Sep 25, 2007

It's warriors and goddesses a story line that is as old and as simple as they get. There are a few current hot buttons thrown in (tattoo's, role reversal, some homo erotica mixed in and soldier's filming), but nothing too earth shattering or all that politically relevant or revealing. The lighting is very good and a bit over the top. It may attempt to be more, but I'm not seeing it.

David H. Bebbington · Sep 25, 2007

I cannot fault the production values or the execution of this project, but I am simply awed that it ever got made. Is Vogue saying to its affluent style-conscious clientele: "If you feel like gang-banging a bunch of GIs to relieve your boredom, here are the clothes that will make you look good while you're rolling in the mud"? (In actual fact, the clothes shown would probably not survive contact with mud and would need to be thrown away). Was the art director Jack Daniels? Or Johnny Walker? Or someone who saw "Easy Rider" and "Apocalypse Now" once? I note that the photographer is Steven Meisel, who brought us that model of taste and artistic refinement "Sex" with Madonna.

Curt · Sep 25, 2007

:munch: Seen worse, but would it be better in B&W? This may be great on CD and dropped on Iran prior to the next war.

patrickjames · Sep 25, 2007

Keep in mind that it took place in a fashion magazine. Can one take anything seriously from a fashion magazine? They amplify things 1000 times reality. I should say that I think it is in bad taste, and I don't support the war, only that no one else gets killed, but who cares what Vogue thinks? If this was in Newsweek there would be something behind it. I just think they are trying to offend to grab attention. For the last few years I have been trying to figure out why Meisel is held in such regard. I haven't a clue yet. Very pedestrian images that anyone can do. This spread will disappear faster than a puff of smoke on a windy day.

Patrick

Soeren · Sep 25, 2007

JBrunner said:
One the one hand:

"Uh, I dun't no much about art, but I know what I like!"

And on the other hand:

"Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate, to buy shit we don't need."

Yep, that nailed it pretty well.

Cheers
Søren

bruce terry · Sep 25, 2007

A win-win-win for the middle eastern axis of evil.

The visiting President of the Revolutionary Guard downloaded this technically-perfect, prurient 'Americana' to his laptop, then took it back to Tehran.

After conducting a (1) personal-and-private study of it's rich form and fauna, he intends to (2) propagandize the images as further proof the Infidels can easily be vanquished, since their vaunted militart does little but party-down and feel-up.

Most important, he know the youthful unemployed of Persia and Arabia, all of which are heterosexual, will be (3) screaming to join the Jihad when they see thru Vogue eyes what a wonderful earthly army life they are headed to before they die knowing god willing of course they are guaranteed the really good stuff after they die.

Ed Sukach · Sep 25, 2007

scootermm said:
copake, you are without a doubt one of the most nonsensical people Ive had the luxury of "reading" online.

Not to fuel any fires, but I listen to copake's opinions whether I agree or not.

What here do you consider "nonsensical"?

jd callow · Sep 25, 2007

...context, proportion, relevance all come to mind.

Vaughn · Sep 25, 2007

Well executed sexist bullsh*h.

Culturally insensitive (naked and near naked women and alcohol). There may be no direct reference to Iraq, but the connection is made by the viewer nevertheless.

Rape in wartime has always existed. Two of the images go over the line (IMO) in glorifying wartime rape.

All in all, just real real bad taste. Being a "Fashion Shoot" is no excuse for such bad taste.

Vaughn

arigram · Sep 25, 2007

Advertising and fashion deal with fantasies, carnal fantasies in particular, so I agree with those that find nothing out of the ordinary.

Considering that fashion comes out with camouflage and millitary styled clothing when war is in the news, I don't consider the industry politically agnostic, but that is nothing out of the ordinary either.

Vaughn, with all respect, I think you are over-reacting.

Plus, glamorous women and soldiers have been meeting in typo/photography since the first wars of the past century. This photoshoot takes a lot out of the tradition of the pin-up girl, adds some semi-naked hunks to balance out the sexuality and mixes them into a gritty fantasy "realistic" setting.

I like it.

k_jupiter · Sep 25, 2007

MikeSeb said:
With a brevity that oft eludes me, haris has summed up my viewpoint concisely.

Nice lighting, buff boys, underfed plasticky chicks--sounds like fashion photography to me! And oooh, all that sweat! Makes me wanna BUY something! Just not sure WHAT!

This isn't an advertisement for OD Green Condums?

Other than that, who cares? Advertising doesn't belong in the concept of ehtics.

I get the same glazed over look in my eyes everytime I even see the cover of Vogue as I do when pressed, unwillingly, to walk through the local mall.

Who buys this crap and why would I care?

tim in greater metropolitan downtown silicon valley

Vaughn · Sep 25, 2007

Ari, we'll have to agree to disagree on this. Also, I do admit to having an anti-war bias which feeds my disgust of this photo series.

To me this piece is like well done Nazi anti-Jew propaganda...good graphics, well produced, but the message is terrible. I see your "Pin-up" connection, but this goes so far beyond that, that the connection is lost.

For the sake of clarity, the images that I consider glorifying rape would be the rightside image #8, and #12, with #15 being more borderline.

I have to admit #16 is rather clever -- as a siloette, before the image transforms into normal color, it looks like that soldier has a donkey dick! Very tricky.

Vaughn

laverdure · Sep 25, 2007

It's hardly Nazi propaganda. If the Iranians need some new reason to destroy the USA I'm sure they can find something better than this. Intimations of rape are nothing new in fashion photography. In fact, I don't think there's much of anything new about this.

Ole · Sep 25, 2007

David H. Bebbington said:
... but I am simply awed that it ever got made. Is Vogue saying to its affluent style-conscious clientele: "If you feel like gang-banging a bunch of GIs to relieve your boredom, here are the clothes that will make you look good while you're rolling in the mud"? ...

Considering that the "clientele" includes people like Paris Hilton and Victoria Beckham, I think you nailed it pretty well.

I'm not surprised at all.

Vaughn · Sep 25, 2007

laverdure said:
It's hardly Nazi propaganda. If the Iranians need some new reason to destroy the USA I'm sure they can find something better than this. Intimations of rape are nothing new in fashion photography. In fact, I don't think there's much of anything new about this.

Sorry, I did not mean to imply that it was anything like Nazi propaganda -- only it as well crafted as some of that propaganda, yet with a negative purpose. But I do think that anti-women material is as bad as anti-Semitic and racist material. On a scale of 1 to 10, with ten being the worst, this only rates about a 7 or an 8...definitely not the worst out there.

What does "newness" have to do with it? Racism has been with us a long time, too, but I don't see much of that in advertizing anymore. Someday such crapola will be socially unacceptable...but not because some "like it" or saythat it has always existed in advertising.

Vaughn

gminerich · Sep 25, 2007

Lets see:
Objectifies women
The US is evil
Anti – War
Nudity to sell a product
Simulated sex/rape to appeal to the prurient interests fringes
Drunk Americans reveling in arrogance
They missed burning a flag and having sex on money
Pretty much “The Filthy Americans”, stereotype again.

It looks like an advertising agency campaign aimed at a high-income class for an ego trip.

One look at the credit page leads you to believe this spread cost a fortune to produce. Too bad the manufacturer didn’t spend the money on improving working conditions on their sewing floors or for raises for their employees running the sewing machines. I guess the working class folks don’t buy high fashion?

What is most interesting is that it is a digital shoot heavily worked over in PhotoShop without comments? I’m glad they weren’t selling digital cameras!

copake_ham · Sep 25, 2007

scootermm said:
copake, you are without a doubt one of the most nonsensical people Ive had the luxury of "reading" online.

Or maybe you lack a global perspective?

Watch Myanmar - next test of the Regime Change model.

copake_ham · Sep 25, 2007

jd callow said:
...context, proportion, relevance all come to mind.

Actually, JD, it hits all three.

The world model is changing very rapidly.

You apparently are not aware of how Iran's President was "dealt" with during this week's UNGA meeting.

Yahoos, aside, Bollinger at Columbia invited him to speak and amidsts the protests, he skewered the man. It was a clear signal that the liberal US mind has no greater interest in this clown's survival than do the "hang him high" conservatives!

As post up above notes - the current "test run" is Myanmar. Lead was taken by UK and Germany day before yesterday when they indicated support for Bhuddist monk's protests. It was reported on the Bloomberg.com website.

Today, the US, via Bush, announced its support for Regime Change in Myanmar while speaking at UNGA.

I have doubts this alone will be successful (see post in Lounge thread); but events are now unfolding fast.

BTW, did you not know that the Israelis blasted a Syrian nuke facility the week before last? It was done with direct and indirect intelligence support from US and France. Did you think that France's hi-res photo satellites were just being used by Google to show you how to get home?

I figure Iran has about two months left to figure out where it is going. There are now full page ads here in the NY Times calling for an outright air attack. Hopefully these folks will not prevail - but Bush and the Republicans are getting desperate - we're on the cusp of an economic recession and a foreign threat is a potential salvation.

Watch the Fed. If they lower rates again then they've abandoned inflation control. It will mean either or both regarding boosting the US domestic economy and further financing a war with Iran.

This isn't a game - it's reality.

Note: saying this does not mean I'm in favor of it.

What do you think of this?

tommy5c

jd callow

Moderator

David H. Bebbington

Curt

patrickjames

Soeren

bruce terry

Ed Sukach

jd callow

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Vaughn

arigram

k_jupiter

Vaughn

laverdure

Ole

Moderator

Vaughn

gminerich

copake_ham

copake_ham

What do you think of this?

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