What do you think are the design misses?

[albada]

The film advance devices in the various Retinas are actually quite robust, and I rarely find one that's truly "broken". (I service an average of three of them a week) The vast majority just need old lubricants cleaned out and replaced. The IIc/IIIc types (late 1950s) has a problem with the nickel plated brass toothed rack that links the film advance to the cocking of the shutter: if the camera has not been serviced in decades, the lubricants dry out and a lot of extra force is applied to the rack, which inevitably results in distortion/breakage of the teeth. In 1959 it wasn't considered a "flaw", since replacement racks were readily available, but 60 years later, its a different matter. Which models do you have, and can you describe their problems?
The Retina IIa and Ia have a particular issue where the tiny spring that controls the frame counter eventually wears out from metal fatigue, and so the tip breaks off and the frame counter stops working. But that doesn't affect the functioning of the film advance.

Paul, I have devised a few ways of (1) repairing/restoring racks that are damaged or stripped, and (2) preventing racks from being damaged. I've documented these methods on my web-page:

Restoring racks: https://fixfilmcamera.com/FixRetinaRack/FixRetinaRack.html
Preventing damage: https://fixfilmcamera.com/BraceRetinaRack/BraceRack.html​

You might find some of these ideas helpful.

Mark Overton

 

[bdial]

The flash sync outlet on Leica M cameras. If I use a flash, I really want the plug jammed into my forehead.

Way back when, in a session of the Nikon School, I learned a handy way to deal with the back on F's while you're loading.
Assuming right-handedness, hold the camera by the lens in your left hand with the back facing up. Remove the back and slip the end under your left index finger, with the long dimension of the back parallel with the lens.
Load, replace the back and go. Presumably it would work equally for lefties, holding the camera in your right hand. Easier than dealing with the base plate of bottom loading cameras.

 

[MattKing]

More generally, the plethora of relatively modern SLRs that have a grip built in for the right hand, but nothing for the ~20% of photographers who are left handed.
May be more of a missed opportunity than anything else.

 

[Sirius Glass]

More generally, the plethora of relatively modern SLRs that have a grip built in for the right hand, but nothing for the ~20% of photographers who are left handed.
May be more of a missed opportunity than anything else.

The Hasselblad sits in the left hand and is fired with the left index finger.
The Exacta are great left handed cameras
The Mamiya C2xx and C3xx allowed focus and firing with either hand <==== A real rarity!!

 

[MattKing]

The Hasselblad sits in the left hand and is fired with the left index finger.
The Exacta are great left handed cameras
The Mamiya C2xx and C3xx allowed focus and firing with either hand <==== A real rarity!!

You may have missed the fact that this thread is in the 35mm Cameras sub-forum .
And of course, the "relatively modern" part of my post probably means that Exactas aren't in the running!

 

[Sirius Glass]

You may have missed the fact that this thread is in the 35mm Cameras sub-forum .
And of course, the "relatively modern" part of my post probably means that Exactas aren't in the running!

Yes, but I picked up on the "left hand camera" part and there are so few of those around that I felt that all formats should be fair game.

 

[RDW]

Film advance levers that have to be pulled out to the stand-off position to unlock the shutter or switch on the meter or both. It doesn't seem to have occurred to the designers that some people will be holding up the camera to their left eye, which means that the tip of the lever will poke the photographer where their right eye socket meets their nose in landscape mode, and either dig into their forehead or risk going up a nostril in portrait mode, depending which way up they hold it. The Nikon FM, FM2, FE, FE2 and FM3a all have this issue. The early FM variant with the separate shutter lock is the least bad, but you still need to pull out the lever to switch on the meter. Later cameras like Nikon's AF SLRs aren't quite as left eye hostile, but it's still fiddly to operate the multi-selector on a smaller body like the F80.

 

[250swb]

And how many people presented with a Nikon F in 1959 would be bitching about all the things wrong with it, good grief is this a spoiled brats thread?

 

[Sirius Glass]

And how many people presented with a Nikon F in 1959 would be bitching about all the things wrong with it, good grief is this a spoiled brats thread?

So I am not the only one that notices the self-righteous bitching. I am glad go see that I am not alone.

 

[reddesert]

It's just about things that designers thought were a good idea, but turned out to be unnecessary or cause problems. I don't mind the removable back on the Nikon F or similar cameras as I understand why it was put there in the first place, for the "system" camera of 1959. However, IMO bottom loading on Leicas and Leica copies persisted long after it was clear that adequate film flatness could be achieved in back loading cameras.

The device in the wind lever of some Retinas that locks the wind lever at the end of a roll is an unnecessary appendix that causes more grief, again IMO. I think some Retinas are given up for broken (or maybe even broken by forcing it) because of this feature.

 

[Huss]

And how many people presented with a Nikon F in 1959 would be bitching about all the things wrong with it, good grief is this a spoiled brats thread?

Why do you think Nikon fixed those issues w the F2?
We accept your thanks in behalf of those spoiled brats in years past who have brought us all the wonderful photographic improvements.

 

[Nodda Duma]

More generally, the plethora of relatively modern SLRs that have a grip built in for the right hand, but nothing for the ~20% of photographers who are left handed.
May be more of a missed opportunity than anything else.

The world has no shame for its bias against us left handers.

 

[madNbad]

When designers send out a product, they can't anticipate every way those items will be used in the real world. Cameras made today have the advantage of computer modeling and other resources to help locate the weak points. Still, they rely on feedback from the people who are using them. Most of the cameras discussed in this thread had improvements made because of customers input. Apperently, the griping worked.

 

[Les Sarile]

And how many people presented with a Nikon F in 1959 would be bitching about all the things wrong with it, good grief is this a spoiled brats thread?

So I am not the only one that notices the self-righteous bitching. I am glad go see that I am not alone.

Actually Nikon itself noticed enough to develope and release the F2. As I pointed out earlier, they even ran full page ads in the photo magazines at the time.

 

[Huss]

When designers send out a product, they can't anticipate every way those items will be used in the real world. Cameras made today have the advantage of computer modeling and other resources to help locate the weak points. Still, they rely on feedback from the people who are using them. Most of the cameras discussed in this thread had improvements made because of customers input. Apperently, the griping worked.

Of course it did!

Some people just like to take the fun out of a thread.

"Wood wheel? Me like round rock with hole!"

 

[250swb]

Why do you think Nikon fixed those issues w the F2?
We accept your thanks in behalf of those spoiled brats in years past who have brought us all the wonderful photographic improvements.

The 'issue' was a design philosophy carried over from the SP S3 etc. of which the F used many parts so Nikon had a longish record of having an entirely removable back, it wasn't like they thought of a way just to make the F bad. But in it's day nobody would be bitching about it, it wasn't a problem that occurred to photographers like genuine design misses that are obvious from the start of a cameras life. And photographers were used to the idea of taking the bottom off their Leica's so what is this massive deal with the Nikon F? If that is the definition of a design miss then on another forum far, far away somebody will be saying that in retrospect sails were a bad design miss when it came to powering ships along. And yes they changed the back with the F2, but there wasn't a mass exodus from the F just because the F2 came along and solved all these supposed problems. The F2 was an evolution and not a revolution, indeed it's as probable that the better integration of the motor drive was the key feature that brought about the opening back and not Nikon photographers sitting in a Vietnamese ditch jealous of the guy with a Spotmatic. Hinged backs go way back before then and if Nikon had needed a lesson in camera design they could have adopted it for their rangefinders from any number of camera manufactures who no longer exist.

 

[otto.f]

Although I don’t see the point of this thread I can name a few of my beloved M7. I just read the book ‘The usefulness of the useless’ from Nuccio Ordine, so this might be a good start of being busy with useless questions.
The M7 has DX-code reading, if I’m correct it’s the first M that has it. As a consequence the film cassettes are much more difficult to get out of the camera when changing films. Apart from that it’s a well-known problem of the M7 that the DX-code reading doesn’t work properly, so I never use it. Another small PITA is the on/off switch which is placed in an unhandy manner, it’s mostly very hard to switch it on when you have the camera for your eyes in shooting position, unless you have long nails, which I don’t prefer for pushing the shutter release button.

 

[albireo]

Another F100 miss: loved mine overall, but that tiny round switch on the pentaprism to switch between metering modes (matrix, centre-weighted, spot) was bloody disaster. Mine broke after 2 years of light usage. Plastic so cheap it doesn't even belong to a toy.

 

[albireo]

More generally, the plethora of relatively modern SLRs that have a grip built in for the right hand, but nothing for the ~20% of photographers who are left handed.
May be more of a missed opportunity than anything else.

This is a big one. As a left handed person, 35mm SLRs/DSLRs never quite work for me. I compose with my left eye, so the ergonomics and the handling are just off.

All solved though when I switched to medium format - completely happy with my TLRs and their overall ergonomic symmetry.

 

[Chan Tran]

Putting the meter readout on top of the camera is not much help, that one never made sense to me, I want to see it in the viewfinder. Of course, the biggest design error is that except for Nikon, all the other lenses mount in the wrong direction.

But after using the Nikon for 40 plus years it became second nature. I would intutively know which way to mount the lens, which way to turn the aperture ring and which way to turn the focusing ring. When I use a different brand I kind of got lost.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

If the manufacturer resolved all issues in one particular model, there would be no reason to spend money on an upgrade. I own a Sony RX100 Model 4. It started at Model 1; now they're up to RX100 Model 7.

 

[Paul Howell]

Some start as a really good idea, just over the test of time did not work out too well, Miranda Senormat and EE with the meter cell on the mirror. When new worked well, with used the connection between the mirror and meter electronics break. I have 3 EE and 2 Senormats, only one functioning meter.

 

[Huss]

The M7 has DX-code reading, if I’m correct it’s the first M that has it. As a consequence the film cassettes are much more difficult to get out of the camera when changing films. Apart from that it’s a well-known problem of the M7 that the DX-code reading doesn’t work properly, so I never use it. Another small PITA is the on/off switch which is placed in an unhandy manner, it’s mostly very hard to switch it on when you have the camera for your eyes in shooting position, unless you have long nails, which I don’t prefer for pushing the shutter release button.

My M7s have the updated DX system but it would be so much better without it, like the MP. The problem is if you use an uncoded DX canister, you will ALWAYS get a flashing light in the view finder. If you set the ISO manually with a DX coded canister, you will ALWAYS get a flashing light in the viewfinder. If you use exp compensation, you will ALWAYS get a flashing light in the viewfinder. And it is always the same little flashing light so you then have to figure out why, what has happened, and if you can ignore it. Oh and that little flashing light sometimes comes on if the battery is low. Which is confusing as other times for low battery the shutter speed LEDs pulsate. Or BC (battery check) is displayed.

It's as if Leica had three separate teams working on the same project at the same time, they never checked with each other, and all three teams suggestions were incorporated into the final design w/o thinking it through. And no-one was willing to speak up as to how bad it was! All this could have been solved by just NOT having DX coding! And just one message/indicator for low battery.

p.s. I find the on/off switch very easy to use and have no complaints there...

 

[Huss]

Finally, my 3rd retarded design award goes to the maker of humans. Leica engineers have devised a brilliant way to nearly instantly load a 35mm film cassette into a camera, which was revealed with the introduction of the Leica M4. Unfortunately, the human designer dropped the ball on geometry comprehension brain circuitry, and as a result, despite trivial to follow instructions and the intuitive film loading diagram printed on every bottom plate of every Leica ever produced, an average human appears to be incapable of following those instructions.

YES! I have never had a problem just following the extremely simple instructions to load the film. Just do what the picture shows! That's it! And even some 'experts' like Tamarkin (Leica shop in Chicago?) do it completely wrong! He even has a video showing to keep winding the film with the back open, before finally closing it and then winding it some more. I think he wastes something like 5 exposures per roll!

DO NOT LOAD YOUR CAMERA LIKE THIS! unless you're cool with fiddling around, wasting time and film.

http://www.tamarkin.com/blog/how-load-modern-leica-m-film-cameras-m4-m6-m7-mp

 

[Laurent]

Canon T90. Would be the best manual focus Canon if only the shutter was reliable. Apart for this it has all and everything, and is even superior IMO to the EOS3 (which has the same sticky magnet issue)