What do you do when it starts getting old?

k_jupiter · May 30, 2009

clayne said:
k_jupiter said:

Of course there are differences. What does that have to do with photography and a point behind it? Substance, not fidelity, should be first and foremost, wouldn't you think?

Click to expand...

I think you gave him some advice, and I gave him some advice. He's already tried yours and it didn't work. He is still bored and uninspired. He might try mine. It's his choice, eh?

Adios.

tim in san jose

Q.G. · May 30, 2009

clayne said:
Substance, not fidelity, should be first and foremost, wouldn't you think?

Indeed.

And it amazes me how many seem to think that photography is about cameras, film, and wet stuff. Without sparing a thought for why we have that all, why these things are used (a clue: it's not - or at least should not - to be able to play with cameras, film and wet stuff).

Print exchanges, different techniques, shows, different formats ... all nice, but they do not touch the core.
Where oh where is the subject???

I get the feeling many of the 'still motivated' should take a time out too, and ponder the question whether the images (things to look at) they produce are actualy made to be looked at.
And if not, why they were busy producing images. And if that time out should not perhaps be made to last much, much longer.

Ask yourself why something needs to be captured.

And even more important: why other people are supposed to spend their time looking at the pictures. If you can't find an answer to this, there is little point in continuing taking pictures.

And if you're bored with photographing things, cannot find something to interest you photographically, find what it is that is occupying your time instead. What it is that you do still find worth your while.
Maybe that's worthwhile pulling a camera out of the bag for too.

Curt · May 30, 2009

Haul a big load of gear to Hawaii to photograph roots and leaves, let the spouse choose the island, enjoy the flight over, get out in the hot weather, chill in the air-conditioned room all night, then half way though get so sick you wondered what was going on and why were you there, let the spouse continue with the agenda, get out and photograph some roots and leaves, pack it up, get the rental car back, get to the airport, get on the plane, sit in the center, get squeezed by the jumbo xxxlarge man in the isle seat, have him talk all the way home while you blow your nose, cough, and have thoughts of sky diving without a parachute. Upon arrival the spouse says, "What did you and that nice man have to talk about for five hours?"

Weeks later, no swine flu or sars or other animal derived diseases, it was an air-conditioned induced lung thing, according to the doctor. Back in the darkroom for short times the negatives look really good and one print made. Instead of a nice tropical vacation it seemed like locked up abroad. In the jungle of the International trade zone place, where the large man said no local goes, I started to have an SEA flashback.

That guy in the movie was right, "Never get out of the boat".

k_jupiter · May 30, 2009

Q.G. said:
Indeed.

And it amazes me how many seem to think that photography is about cameras, film, and wet stuff. Without sparing a thought for why we have that all, why these things are used (a clue: it's not - or at least should not - to be able to play with cameras, film and wet stuff).

Print exchanges, different techniques, shows, different formats ... all nice, but they do not touch the core.
Where oh where is the subject???

I get the feeling many of the 'still motivated' should take a time out too, and ponder the question whether the images (things to look at) they produce are actualy made to be looked at.
And if not, why they were busy producing images. And if that time out should not perhaps be made to last much, much longer.

Ask yourself why something needs to be captured.

And even more important: why other people are supposed to spend their time looking at the pictures. If you can't find an answer to this, there is little point in continuing taking pictures.

And if you're bored with photographing things, cannot find something to interest you photographically, find what it is that is occupying your time instead. What it is that you do still find worth your while.
Maybe that's worthwhile pulling a camera out of the bag for too.

Oh yes..the awhlmightygawd ever loving don't cross this line of "WHAT IS PHOTOGRAPHY" dictum.

You have no freaking clue what photography is to me. None. You know what it is to you. Photography is about cameras, film, and wet stuff. You haven't seen me sit here and judge people because they are so wrapped up in "IMAGE" making that they don't have a clue as to craft. I said if the image making isn't enough, it's because you don't know the craft of analog photography. That learning that will stimulate the interest to keep your image making going. Yet you sit there and tell me MY reason for photography is f*cked up. Thanks.

As for WHY other people would want to see my photographs. you are totally clueless. My photography, both craftwise and imagewise is for me. I don't give a rats ass what you or anyone else thinks of my photographs. That's why I don't post them on this or any other site except for a couple on flickr for people who ask Why I might bring a Deardorff to work with me occasionally. Not that I care what they think, it just satisfies their curiosity and keeps me from answering too many questions.

snegron wanted some ideas on how to rekindle his interest. You all give him the same tired 'find a new project' or 'give it up if you don't understand the image is everything' lines. At least a couple of us have advised him to go where he might find something interesting.

I think Art might be the one who says it best.

tim in san jose

spoolman · May 30, 2009

what do you do when it starts to get old?

Heres my two and a half cents worth.I ahve a number of cameras(22 at last count)of all types sizes and formats.No 8x10 or larger,bad back !!!).When I get bored of using one format(usually 6x9 folder)I pull out one of my 3A folders or my 2x3 Baby Crown Graphic.I shoot trains,buses,streetcars and anything that happens to catch my fancy.

If I get bored doing any of this,I go down into the basement and play with my Lionel toy trains.Or print some of my negs.As tim say I don't give a rats you know what whether anybody else likes the subject matter I shoot or not.I do it because its enjoyable,it gets me out into the fresh air and to meet some of my fellow trainspotters to swap stories of how you missed that special train with the one of a kind paint scheme or the newest order of locomotives that your favorite railway just started taking delivery of.

If I sell and of the images, great,if not so what !!!.

Anyway thanks for listening and I hope this helps.

Doug

waynecrider · May 30, 2009

I think that in the end the motivation to shoot comes down to either a change of scenery such as a trip, a job to fulfill someones need or a goal to use your tools. I keep thinking about the proverbial boat on the ocean without a sail. No game plan and just floating around on the great photo ocean doesn't get it. I would say, especially as a person in that same boat every so often, to maybe find a project. Perhaps take a trip or come up with a game plan to accomplish something. My own late experience to help someone out with some photo's she needed energized me to get something done with my photo tools. It put my brain back to work and I have something to do with my cameras.
So I'll offer some ideas up. Market some greeting cards or post cards, donate your services to a needy organization (if you give it always comes back), organize a family photo book and get it published from one of the one off book sites or perhaps start a Fla blog about where to go and what to do. Maybe all of these are not of interest to you but you'll probably come up with some of your own. You have plenty of tools, you just need a project to use them.

Q.G. · May 30, 2009

k_jupiter said:
Oh yes..the awhlmightygawd ever loving don't cross this line of "WHAT IS PHOTOGRAPHY" dictum. [...]

What i do know now for sure is that your pictures are nothing something i would even want to consider having a look at. I indeed was clueless about that before.
But please do enjoy being someone who likes to play with hardware and wet stuff.

You're very worked up about your view being right, that of others not.
Yet where do you say anything interesting and/or to the point?

k_jupiter · May 30, 2009

Q.G. said:
What i do know now for sure is that your pictures are nothing something i would even want to consider having a look at. I indeed was clueless about that before.
But please do enjoy being someone who likes to play with hardware and wet stuff.

You're very worked up about your view being right, that of others not.
Yet where do you say anything interesting and/or to the point?

Sure! You know what F.O. stands for don't ya Q.G.?

The guy tells ya he is bored with different projects, same old stuff, nothing to shoot so you give him him advice to shoot different projects, new ways to think of the same old stuff. That's helpful and to the point, isn't it?

Maybe if you see nothing interesting or to the point in my advice, it means you didn't read it correctly.

As far as you not wanting to look at my photos... Who gives a rat's ass? Talk about someone with self importance issues.

Ya sure made my day. *L*

tim in san jose

2F/2F · May 30, 2009

I never really get tired of photographing; especially what I want to photograph for my own pleasure. I do get tired of the process, however. When this happens to me, it is out of sheer exhaustion from shooting all the time for other people. Products every day now...and it used to be newspaper pix, often at the rate of a dozen shoots a week when we were shorthanded. I relish weddings and assisting gigs because they are a change of pace. When I get exhausted with photography, I try to do something else. Sleep, eat, drink bourbon....things like that. Then, with enough of those things, I mend up and am ready to take pictures again!

k_jupiter · May 30, 2009

2F/2F said:
Sleep, eat, drink bourbon....things like that. Then, with enough of those things, I mend up and am ready to take pictures again!

I'll remember that for when we do meet One. Good bourbon, eh?

I like a decent Scotch myself.

When I get tired of the process, there are a ton of other things I do with my creative energies. The darkroom always waits though.

tim in san jose

Q.G. · May 30, 2009

k_jupiter said:
As far as you not wanting to look at my photos... Who gives a rat's ass? Talk about someone with self importance issues.

You apparently have a problem recognizing when people actually agree with your own point of view.

As to the reason why, perhaps the words "self importance issue" appearing in your writing might be a clue?

And i do also dare to suggest that you perhaps have a look at what else you might have missed.

Anyhow, i'll repeat what i said earlier, if someone's bored with something, and rather does something else, he might want to see what that something else is and make that the focus of his attention.

Being bored with something is about content. About the mere going through the motions (i.e. playing with cameras, film and wet stuff) not being sufficient to motivate.
And why should it? There is so much more that is interesting. If only you seek the way out of the rut not in the same old motions again, but in making that what does still interest you the focus of your attention, of your photography.

And if it would be so bad that there really is nothing in this world that could make you get up from your lazy chair and do something? Can't imagine that. There is a always a subject (!) that would make you do just that.
But if not, an internet forum like this would not be the place to find salvation.

snegron · May 30, 2009

Thanks again for all the responses and recommendations! Today I took my wife and kids on our usual family weekend road trip. This time it was to the zoo. I haven't been to this particular zoo for some time, so it was nice to see some new additions.

As with all my previous road trips I debated what equipment I should take with me. This time was a bit different. I didn't dwell over it as much thanks to the advice I followed as suggested by several of you here. I ended up going with a tiny P&S and one camera with one prime lens (a 180mm 2.8).

As I walked around the zoo I observed several people using cameras, lenses, tripods, and loads of other equipment. I decided that I would focus on shooting just a few animal shots and a few shots of my kids reactions to the exhibits.

As I was doing this an interesting thought dawned on me; for the past 25 or more years I have been shooting images to please others. Today I decided to shoot for my own satisfaction; I shot what was important to me. I didn't shoot with the intention of printing, selling, exhibiting, or pleasing a client. I was enjoying myself until I blew it by posing my kids in a few shots in an aquarium exhibit in what I thought would be great shots for printing. In other words, I felt like I ruined the candid moment when I started posing them. I decided to stop trying to figure out how to get them both to pose at the right time with the right facial expressions at the right time when fishes were in the picture. I felt at that moment that I had to let it go. Why was I struggling to get all the elements in the image? For a final print that would look nice on paper? I believe that the images I shot up until that moment lacked emotion because of all the effort I was putting into them in order to make them look like they captured emotion!

I ended up shooting a few pictures of my kids enjoying a cup of ice cream. These images captured what was important to me today. I believe that instead of getting away from photography all together for awhile, I think I will start shooting a few rolls for me for a change.

clayne · May 30, 2009

k_jupiter said:
The guy tells ya he is bored with different projects, same old stuff, nothing to shoot so you give him him advice to shoot different projects, new ways to think of the same old stuff. That's helpful and to the point, isn't it?

Maybe if you see nothing interesting or to the point in my advice, it means you didn't read it correctly.

He never said he was bored with different projects. He said he was bored with certain kinds of subjects and/or the grief that might come with them. That has squat to do with a project, essay, or directed goal. Go back and read the original message and you'll see that he mentioned getting new gear doesn't do anything for him anymore. You're missing the root of the issue.

k_jupiter · May 30, 2009

Q.G. said:
You apparently have a problem recognizing when people actually agree with your own point of view.

As to the reason why, perhaps the words "self importance issue" appearing in your writing might be a clue?

And i do also dare to suggest that you perhaps have a look at what else you might have missed.

Anyhow, i'll repeat what i said earlier, if someone's bored with something, and rather does something else, he might want to see what that something else is and make that the focus of his attention.

Being bored with something is about content. About the mere going through the motions (i.e. playing with cameras, film and wet stuff) not being sufficient to motivate.
And why should it? There is so much more that is interesting. If only you seek the way out of the rut not in the same old motions again, but in making that what does still interest you the focus of your attention, of your photography.

And if it would be so bad that there really is nothing in this world that could make you get up from your lazy chair and do something? Can't imagine that. There is a always a subject (!) that would make you do just that.
But if not, an internet forum like this would not be the place to find salvation.

Truce.
I call those moments where I do nothing... Dad's vacations. About every two or three years I demand we go somewhere where I get to do nothing but what I want for a week. Which is of course, nothing. Usually Sea Ranch up on the California Coast. I bring a camera, it usually doesn't get used. I bring a couple of cookbooks cause that's what I like to do when I am doing nothing. I don't bring a computer or a guilt complex.

So. To put a small clarification on one point. I never go through the motions when I am processing. Every piece of film or paper came from an idea, has a small specific difference from every other piece of film. Playing with the wash is always an intensely satisfying occupation that results in something I appreciate. When I get to the point where I have totally mastered the art of photography, 1.) I'll let you know. *L* and 2.) I'll quit.

It's just my makeup.

Take care.

tim in san jose

k_jupiter · May 30, 2009

snegron said:
Thanks again for all the responses and recommendations! Today I took my wife and kids on our usual family weekend road trip. This time it was to the zoo. I haven't been to this particular zoo for some time, so it was nice to see some new additions.

As with all my previous road trips I debated what equipment I should take with me. This time was a bit different. I didn't dwell over it as much thanks to the advice I followed as suggested by several of you here. I ended up going with a tiny P&S and one camera with one prime lens (a 180mm 2.8).

As I walked around the zoo I observed several people using cameras, lenses, tripods, and loads of other equipment. I decided that I would focus on shooting just a few animal shots and a few shots of my kids reactions to the exhibits.

As I was doing this an interesting thought dawned on me; for the past 25 or more years I have been shooting images to please others. Today I decided to shoot for my own satisfaction; I shot what was important to me. I didn't shoot with the intention of printing, selling, exhibiting, or pleasing a client. I was enjoying myself until I blew it by posing my kids in a few shots in an aquarium exhibit in what I thought would be great shots for printing. In other words, I felt like I ruined the candid moment when I started posing them. I decided to stop trying to figure out how to get them both to pose at the right time with the right facial expressions at the right time when fishes were in the picture. I felt at that moment that I had to let it go. Why was I struggling to get all the elements in the image? For a final print that would look nice on paper? I believe that the images I shot up until that moment lacked emotion because of all the effort I was putting into them in order to make them look like they captured emotion!

I ended up shooting a few pictures of my kids enjoying a cup of ice cream. These images captured what was important to me today. I believe that instead of getting away from photography all together for awhile, I think I will start shooting a few rolls for me for a change.

An Excellent Adventure.

Shoot a LOT of rolls for you if this is going to help.

tim in san jose

snegron · May 30, 2009

k_jupiter said:
An Excellent Adventure.

Shoot a LOT of rolls for you if this is going to help.

tim in san jose

Thanks Tim! Yes, I am looking forward to shooting many more rolls now! In an effort to keep things as simple as possible, I bubble-wrapped and stored the rest of my equipment except for my Nikon Ftn Photomic (and the DSLR's as I need them for work). I am going to try to focus on capturing images that are meaningful to me without being weighed down with thoughts of equipment, ultimate purpose of images, display value, etc. The way I see it, this means that the next road trip or vacation I plan will be for the purpose of enjoyment instead of just another photo trip. The F will be with me to capture a few shots of the trip instead of the trip revolving around the task of capturing images.

k_jupiter · May 30, 2009

May the F be with you.

tim in san jose

removed-user-1 · May 30, 2009

I am hesitant to jump into this debate but I have a couple things to say.

Sometimes I carry a camera for days and take no pictures. People ask me what I am photographing and I say "I'll know it when I see it." Sometimes I just leave the cameras behind for a few days. I've been know to walk around with just a light meter, no camera, seeing if I can estimate an exposure and then checking the meter. Sometimes I shoot like crazy, and end up with 20 rolls of film to process... and find one, exactly one, picture that I like. And I make one print of that, then "wash, rinse, repeat" all of the above. Inspiration comes when it comes, and when it's not there, I wait for it. Sometimes I go out in the back yard and photograph a piece of yard art that I've photographed fifty times already, just because the light is different, or magical, at that moment. It's not even about the subject when that happens.

Seriously, I hope this helps.

snegron · May 30, 2009

rthomas said:
I am hesitant to jump into this debate but I have a couple things to say.

Sometimes I carry a camera for days and take no pictures. People ask me what I am photographing and I say "I'll know it when I see it." Sometimes I just leave the cameras behind for a few days. I've been know to walk around with just a light meter, no camera, seeing if I can estimate an exposure and then checking the meter. Sometimes I shoot like crazy, and end up with 20 rolls of film to process... and find one, exactly one, picture that I like. And I make one print of that, then "wash, rinse, repeat" all of the above. Inspiration comes when it comes, and when it's not there, I wait for it. Sometimes I go out in the back yard and photograph a piece of yard art that I've photographed fifty times already, just because the light is different, or magical, at that moment. It's not even about the subject when that happens.

Seriously, I hope this helps.

Thanks for the feedback! The one thing that has always motivated/inspired me to take pictures throughout the years has been people. More specifically, the expressions of emotions. Looking back at the images I have shot the past few years I have seen a decline in images that capture emotion. I'm not sure if this is because I lost focus while paying more attention to the gear I was using, or if it was because everything has become somewhat of a routine.

On a few occasions I have experimented with other photographic themes, but I usually ended up focusing back on capturing expressions of emotions. Shooting weddings allowed me to continue capturing human emotions. I find it quite interesting when clients end up selecting what I call "cookie cutter" shots instead of images that I believed captured the true emotion of the day. It seems like brides would rather have dozens of images of themselves made up to look like magazine models instead of chosing images that show them in a truely emotional moment (a tear of joy when their mother is helping them prepare for the big event, an expressive smile of relief when rush out of the church, etc). I do find some satisfaction in capturing those emotional moments despite the fact that they never end up getting printed.

I guess that the bottom line is that my approach to photography in general (even the ocassional family road trips) consists of trying to capture those facial expressions that define the entire moment. When I am unable to capture images that convey those feelings, I become dissapointed. That dissapointment leads to overall lack of interest, which in turn, leads to boring-looking photos. Buying a new camera or lens was at times a quick fix, but it failed to prolong the drive to go out shooting and return with inspiring images.

Reading the many posts on this thread has helped me to take a step back and re-evaluate my purpose for shooting images. Today I tried an experiment that worked in terms of inspiration. While I didn't return with any gallery-worthy images, I did return with a new outlook on my future personal projects. I still want to continue to attempt to capture images that define the feeling of the moment, but I will do so as a personal goal.

clayne · May 31, 2009

snegron said:
I find it quite interesting when clients end up selecting what I call "cookie cutter" shots instead of images that I believed captured the true emotion of the day. It seems like brides would rather have dozens of images of themselves made up to look like magazine models instead of chosing images that show them in a truely emotional moment (a tear of joy when their mother is helping them prepare for the big event, an expressive smile of relief when rush out of the church, etc).

This is quite telling of modern society - and not altogether surprisingly, sadly.

removed-user-1 · May 31, 2009

snegron said:
On a few occasions I have experimented with other photographic themes, but I usually ended up focusing back on capturing expressions of emotions. Shooting weddings allowed me to continue capturing human emotions.

Human emotion is my favorite subject. People usually strike some sort of pose when a camera is pointed at them, but I try to find those moments that have nothing to do with the camera. The few weddings that I've done, I have explicitly stated that I would concentrate on "journalistic" candid shots. I used to work for my college newspaper years ago; one time the news editor paid me a profound compliment: she said that I was the only photographer she knew who could take interesting pictures of a student government association meeting! It was because I photographed the interactions and emotions visible in candid shots of the people at the meeting, not the meeting itself. This could turn into another thread entirely... the point I wanted to make in my post is that when I am not feeling inspired, I may or may not make any photographs. It's very much a spur of the moment thing, and I've learned that it has nothing to do with the camera I carry.

John_Nikon_F · May 31, 2009

BradS said:
Don't worry about it. It happens to everybody.

Let the cameras rot for a while. Sell some (a bunch of 'em)...or all but one! Force yourself to sell that excess gear - it is weighing you down...paralyzing you. Get rid of it. It will be good for you.

Most importantly though...don't worry about it. Just do something else that interests you.

I think we all go through dry spells. Sometimes, they are long. I lost interest for 13 years...and came back.

That's one thing I've discovered. When I've had a lot of bodies, I'd rarely do much shooting. So, I began selling stuff off. Once I got down to, say, three or four bodies, I'd begin shooting again. Then, I'd start adding more gear again, and my production of photographs would go down. I intend to keep my four pro Nikon bodies, since I'm getting tired of repeatedly buying the same model body over and over again, and the F-series bodies aren't as cheap as a 'mat or an FM/FE series body. So, my current stable of F, F2A, F3P, and F4 bodies will remain. One of the four bodies was one that I've owned twice. Bought it originally in 2007, then traded it with some stuff in on my current F2A. Got it back at the end of last year, when it reappeared at Kenmore Camera.

The current non-pro bodies will probably stay as well. The FT2 just had a full overhaul done to it, including a new mirror box, to fix the jumpy meter needle issue. Cosmetically, that body would need a new top cover, before it'd be nice enough to *maybe* break even on, so it's with me for the long haul. The chrome FTn is very nice cosmetically, but has the same meter issue. I probably won't have a new mirror box installed, but will have the meter overhauled, and a minor CLA done while they're in there, to get it 100% into spec. The FE2 does need some minor work done to it. Had to extract the rewind crank shaft, which involved taking apart the ASA/ISO dial assembly to gain access to the tang that activates the latch. At the moment, the meter is 1 stop off. To set it at ISO 640, I have to set it to 1250. Or, if I want ISO 100, it has to be @ 200. It could also use a new top cover, since the current one is dented just enough that the multiple exposure lever has to be manually returned to its normal position after being used. Seems to be fairly common, since my previous FM2n had that problem, as did a couple other black FM2n's that I owned, and my other FE2, as well. The chrome bodies didn't seem to be affected as much.

Anyway, to get back to on topic, I nowadays carry one or two bodies and a prime lens or two. I do switch them out from time to time, but, I don't usually load up the bag with as much gear as I can load up, then lug it with me. Took a road trip two weeks ago. Went to Portland, OR for the weekend. Loaded up the FTn, the F, F2A, FM2n, and the F4, plus a bunch of lenses. Shot with two bodies. The F and the F2A. Lens-wise, I used the 24mm sparingly, the 50f2, and the 85f1.8. I think I might've shot one shot with the FM2n, but the F4 didn't come out of the bag once. Similar situation over the New Year's Eve/Day weekend in 2007-08. Went down to Salem, Oregon, to visit with my father, while he helped with the FEMA relief. Loaded up an FM2n, my F2A, my F, and an F5 that I owned @ the time. On New Year's Day, we decided to go visit the state capitol. Took the FM2n (without MD-12) and the 50f1.4 with me. Left everything else in the hotel room. Took quite a few shots, and had fun. Of course, over @ Nikonians, I got lambasted by one of the former members, because he believed that I should've lugged around the Domke F-2 with every single lens and body loaded into it. Think he was also a bit perturbed that I didn't take an F3HP with me on that trip.

-J

clayne · May 31, 2009

Damn, that's a lot of gear to lug around. I bring at most two bodies - almost always a Nikon F3 + 20/2.8 and Leica M4 + 35/2. Rarely have I carried 3, and when I did, I only used 2 at most.

What do you do when it starts getting old?

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