What did I do wrong?

elchinosanz · Aug 9, 2015

Hello, all.
I recently began developing my own black and white film and completly ruined my second roll. I'm trying to figure out what I did wrong.

I was developing HP5 with d76 1+0(I'm assuming that is with no dilution). I developed for 6 minutes at 75° F agitating 10 seconds every minute.
I used room temperature distiled water as a stop bath for 30s agitating, dumped and repeated once more.
I used kodak fixer for 7.5 minutes at ~75° F (Not too sure about the temperature as I just left it in the iced water while developing.) and the fixer came out pink. I agitated 30s every minute. I then opened the tank and all the film was just clear with a purplish tint. No sign of any images.

I'm pretty sure I didn't confuse any chemicals. The fixer stinks.

My best guesses are:

1. Developer heating up a bit.(I used 75° because it was taking too long to reach 68°.)

2. Developer neutralizing because I interchanged the thermometer between solutions the first time I used them.(I cleaned it with a paper towel before changing)

3. Not using appropriate fixing time?

Thank you in advance for any replies!

dasBlute · Aug 9, 2015

film was either unexposed [or vastly underexposed] or fixed before developed.

none of your other actions would remove density. Can you see the ilford lettering on the side of the film?

- hot developer will add lots of density [and possibly reticulation]
- water as a stop bath is ok, it'll reduce the fixer efficacy quicker than acetic stop bath.
- 7.5 mins seems a bit long for fixing, but over fixing will not remove density [afaik]

Rick A · Aug 9, 2015

Is there any visible printing on the edge of the film? If yes, not or under exposed. If not, you fixed first or developer was dead.

rbultman · Aug 9, 2015

Do you see the frame numbers and film info printed in the rebate area?
Did you reuse the developer or use it one-shot? Even if you had reused the developer you would have had some image on the film.

Per the Massive Dev Chart, 7.5 minutes is correct for stock solution (1+0) at 68F. At 6 minutes should have appeared on the film.
7.5 minutes fixing time is likely adequate although I have not looked at the data sheet. Inadequate fixing time would not result in clear film.
Overdeveloping the negatives via either time or temperature would result in much dark negatives, not clear.
Cross contamination could be your culprit. Always rinse your instruments when moving them up stream in the development process.
If you see anything printed in the rebate area, the culprit is the camera or the film was never exposed in the first place. If the film is loaded correctly, you should see the rewind knob move when you advance the film. What camera are you using?

Regards,
Rob

Sirius Glass · Aug 9, 2015

Well welcome to APUG. We will help you sort it out.

RobC · Aug 9, 2015

was the leader tab clear or dark black? If it was clear then I rekon you used fixer first. If it was black then I rekon your camera didn't expose the film for some reason. Maybe not winding on. Maybe left the lens cap on. Maybe shutter not working.

elchinosanz · Aug 9, 2015

dasBlute said:
film was either unexposed [or vastly underexposed] or fixed before developed.

none of your other actions would remove density. Can you see the ilford lettering on the side of the film?

- hot developer will add lots of density [and possibly reticulation]
- water as a stop bath is ok, it'll reduce the fixer efficacy quicker than acetic stop bath.
- 7.5 mins seems a bit long for fixing, but over fixing will not remove density [afaik]

Rick A said:
Is there any visible printing on the edge of the film? If yes, not or under exposed. If not, you fixed first or developer was dead.

rbultman said:
Do you see the frame numbers and film info printed in the rebate area?
Did you reuse the developer or use it one-shot? Even if you had reused the developer you would have had some image on the film.

Per the Massive Dev Chart, 7.5 minutes is correct for stock solution (1+0) at 68F. At 6 minutes should have appeared on the film.

7.5 minutes fixing time is likely adequate although I have not looked at the data sheet. Inadequate fixing time would not result in clear film.

Overdeveloping the negatives via either time or temperature would result in much dark negatives, not clear.

Cross contamination could be your culprit. Always rinse your instruments when moving them up stream in the development process.

If you see anything printed in the rebate area, the culprit is the camera or the film was never exposed in the first place. If the film is loaded correctly, you should see the rewind knob move when you advance the film. What camera are you using?

Regards,
Rob

RobC said:
was the leader tab clear or dark black? If it was clear then I rekon you used fixer first. If it was black then I rekon your camera didn't expose the film for some reason. Maybe not winding on. Maybe left the lens cap on. Maybe shutter not working.

Thanks for the quick replies!

Answering your questions,

-I cannot see any lettering on the side of the film, indicating that I fixed first? I dont think I fixed first because I label everything and I recall smelling the pink fixer (vinegar) before pouring it back in it's container.

-I have half a gallon's worth of each chemical and have only developed one roll before. If it's dead it's because I somehow ruined the whole thing.

- I am reusing both the developer and fixer.

- I used Contax G1 and everything has always worked fine on it.

If the images did not develop, does that mean the developer is dead? Could the switch of one thermometer (wiped with a paper towel) ruin a whole half-gallon?

Should I just throw everything out and mix new chemicals?

Jim Jones · Aug 9, 2015

A quick and rough test of the chemicals is to snip a bit off of the end of a roll of film, expose it to room light, and process it. It should turn black is a fraction of the normal developing time.

Rick A · Aug 9, 2015

Many years ago, I mistakenly poured fixer into my developer, instead of back into the fixer bottle. Any guesses as to what the look on my face was when I realized what I had just done......

Sirius Glass · Aug 9, 2015

Rick A said:
Many years ago, I mistakenly poured fixer into my developer, instead of back into the fixer bottle. Any guesses as to what the look on my face was when I realized what I had just done......

We have all done something like that at one time or another. OR used hypo as developer and developer as hypo.

vdonovan · Aug 9, 2015

Rick A said:
Many years ago, I mistakenly poured fixer into my developer, instead of back into the fixer bottle. Any guesses as to what the look on my face was when I realized what I had just done......

I've been developing my own film for almost fifty years and two years ago I ruined film from a very important shoot doing exactly this. Not only am I getting older, I'm not getting better.

bdial · Aug 9, 2015

Rick A said:
Many years ago, I mistakenly poured fixer into my developer, instead of back into the fixer bottle. Any guesses as to what the look on my face was when I realized what I had just done......

This is a really easy mistake to make. Something that everyone here has likely done at least once.

One thing that helps is to never have more than one bottle uncapped at a time, which is the one you are currently working with. Another is to have dedicated graduates and funnels, so that you never pour developer into a container meant for something else, for example.

I am also curious that you have fixer which smells like vinegar, usually a vinegar smell is associated with acetic acid which is used as a stop bath. Confusing those would not account for your specific problem, but mixing them in quantity isn't something you want to do.

Rick A · Aug 9, 2015

When that "mistake" happened, I was very young and would shoot all day and work in the darkroom all night. And yeah, drink some beer and smoke them funny lookin cigareets. But that was a couple of life times ago.

MattKing · Aug 9, 2015

Another version of the fixer instead of developer error ....

If the first chemical you use is water instead of developer, and you follow it with a water stop bath, and then your fixer, you will get the same result as if you started with fixer.

Rick A · Aug 9, 2015

MattKing said:
Another version of the fixer instead of developer error ....

If the first chemical you use is water instead of developer, and you follow it with a water stop bath, and then your fixer, you will get the same result as if you started with fixer.

Is that the voice of experience?

Sirius Glass · Aug 9, 2015

I line up all the chemical in the right order before I start.

MattKing · Aug 9, 2015

Rick A said:
Is that the voice of experience?

Sotto Voce

As an aside, the thread title reads well on a T-shirt for anyone who happens to be married.:munch:

RattyMouse · Aug 10, 2015

elchinosanz said:
Thanks for the quick replies!

Answering your questions,

-I cannot see any lettering on the side of the film, indicating that I fixed first? I dont think I fixed first because I label everything and I recall smelling the pink fixer (vinegar) before pouring it back in it's container.

Fixer is neither pink nor does it have a vinegar smell. This is stop bath. You mentioned that you stopped developing with DI water. Something sounds very wrong about having stop bath on hand if you are using water.

Rudeofus · Aug 10, 2015

RattyMouse said:
Fixer is neither pink nor does it have a vinegar smell. This is stop bath. You mentioned that you stopped developing with DI water. Something sounds very wrong about having stop bath on hand if you are using water.

Stop bath isn't pink, but good, fresh fixer can turn pink if you fix Tri-X or TMX/TMY. Most people see this pink colour only in their wash water, or retained in their developed film, but a gallon of Kodakfix used to fix only one roll before would count both as good and as fresh, especially if used for as long as the thread starter implies. IIRC, Kodakfix is acidic, too, so it may well smell like Acetic Acid.

Francesco_from_Rome · Aug 10, 2015

RobC said:
was the leader tab clear or dark black? If it was clear then I rekon you used fixer first. If it was black then I rekon your camera didn't expose the film for some reason. Maybe not winding on. Maybe left the lens cap on. Maybe shutter not working.

Answer to these questions would help to understand what went wrong.

By the way, I use the same advice given in a previous reply: only keep a single uncapped bottle at a time. And furthermore, I have a color code: all things (bottles, funnels, ....) developer are blue, marked with blue ink, and so on. All things stop and fixer are red and marked with red ink. This gives me a immediate hint and helps me to reduce the risks of contamination. Of course this only mean that I will be ready to make other errors

Francesco

Xmas · Aug 10, 2015

You should not sniff bottles you are supposed to stick manifist labels on stock bottles, with date of prep and films so far.

The only time to use distilled or deionised is final rinse with photo flow.

If you want to use an acid stop you can dilute white vinegar but it is smelly...

Noel

Saganich · Aug 10, 2015

I use different bottle types for dev and fix and always put the developer on the shelf when done before fixing is complete. Likely the dev was grossly contaminated or the D76 failed completely, which it is known to do but not under circumstances described. It wasn't some old bag found in a draw in your desk? I have a few of those with expiration dates 1998-2002.

elchinosanz · Aug 10, 2015

Thanks for the replies!

So I just tested both the fixer and developer.

I dunked a piece of exposed film in the developer at room temp. ~85 and it took around 5 minutes to turn all dark.

I repeated with another piece of film but in fixer for one minute and the film was clear on the edges but very cloudy in the center.

Should I dump the chemicals?

elchinosanz · Aug 10, 2015

Saganich said:
I use different bottle types for dev and fix and always put the developer on the shelf when done before fixing is complete. Likely the dev was grossly contaminated or the D76 failed completely, which it is known to do but not under circumstances described. It wasn't some old bag found in a draw in your desk? I have a few of those with expiration dates 1998-2002.

Nope, it was a new bag but I would not be surprised if I ruined either of chemicals as it it my first time making the solutions.

rbultman · Aug 10, 2015

Was the second piece of film placed in the developer before placing in the fixer? Fixer removes undeveloped silver.

It sounds like your developer is working. I would dump your fixer if you are concerned about it.

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What did I do wrong?

elchinosanz

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rbultman

Sirius Glass

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Xmas

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