What did I do wrong? (Litho Ortho update)

Amfooty · Apr 15, 2014

So, after many hours experimenting, I managed to get something that kinda sorta resembles continuous tone out of Arista Litho Ortho 2.0 using Rodinal. It's no Delta 100, but I think it looks pretty cool given the film used (plus no grain!!!).

However, out of the second batch of ortho litho shot I got something I've never seen before. Does anyone know what the black specks are? (Hopefully the attachments worked--it's photo (7)).

It was also my second time tray developing, so I could have screwed something up there.
The timeline (with possible explanations):

1. I loaded in a place that was possibly not 100% dark. It was pitch black where my hands were but there were areas where there was a little light. I couldn't see any reflections off the film, so I know it was dark there.
2. Possible underexposure?
3. I did unload with an amber safelight, though I tried to limit the exposure as much as possible. The confusing thing is the picture of the lion was exposed in pretty much the same way and didn't get any marks.
4. Developed in Rodinal 1:125 for 25min, with 1 min agitation at the start.
5. 1min water stopbath
6. Sprint Paper Fixer at 1:9 for 5min

I noticed the marks existed when transitioning between the developer and stop bath.

Thanks for any help in advance.

Dr Croubie · Apr 15, 2014

I've had those black marks appear (but as spots, not huge long bits like yours) when doing Kodalith in 1+200 Rodinal.
No idea what they are either, mabye just a function of Lith film?

Joe VanCleave · Apr 15, 2014

Amfooty said:
So, after many hours experimenting, I managed to get something that kinda sorta resembles continuous tone out of Arista Litho Ortho 2.0 using Rodinal. It's no Delta 100, but I think it looks pretty cool given the film used (plus no grain!!!).

However, out of the second batch of ortho litho shot I got something I've never seen before. Does anyone know what the black specks are? (Hopefully the attachments worked--it's photo (7)).

It was also my second time tray developing, so I could have screwed something up there.
The timeline (with possible explanations):

1. I loaded in a place that was possibly not 100% dark. It was pitch black where my hands were but there were areas where there was a little light. I couldn't see any reflections off the film, so I know it was dark there.
2. Possible underexposure?
3. I did unload with an amber safelight, though I tried to limit the exposure as much as possible. The confusing thing is the picture of the lion was exposed in pretty much the same way and didn't get any marks.
4. Developed in Rodinal 1:125 for 25min, with 1 min agitation at the start.
5. 1min water stopbath
6. Sprint Paper Fixer at 1:9 for 5min

I noticed the marks existed when transitioning between the developer and stop bath.

Thanks for any help in advance.

It's difficult to compare the tones of both images, since the first is a positive and the second a negative. But in general it looks like you're in the ballpark regarding exposure, with the caveat that the first image is daylight and the second indoor lighting, and AOL2.0 is orthochromatic.

The most obvious problem in the second image are the black lines, many of the longer ones being of similar shape. At first I thought they could be either scratches or debris, but then I realized that in a positive image they'd be white, indicating some kind of exposure caused them. If they were scratches in the negative, they'd print as black in a positive image.

My guess is some subtle fogging due to stray light while they were in the developer tray, the lines resemble a point source of light refracted through the liquid developer that then makes squiggly marks due to the sloshing of the liquid.

Try making your makeshift darkroom more light-tight, and get a deep red safelight bulb.

~Joe

PS: The second image also appears to have uneven development, especially along the edges. Perhaps you used the same batch of developer and it was nearing exhaustion. Try using freshly mixed for each run, to ensure consistency, and also more consistently agitate the tray.

Xmas · Apr 15, 2014

Well when using Rodinal1+100 with non prehardened film I temper the wash water to within 1C but get rebate damage from plastic spiral...

Check for emulsion damage.

Amfooty · Apr 15, 2014

Joe VanCleave said:
My guess is some subtle fogging due to stray light while they were in the developer tray, the lines resemble a point source of light refracted through the liquid developer that then makes squiggly marks due to the sloshing of the liquid.
.

Aaaaaaaaaaand I'm an idiot. I had my watch on since I was pressed for time developing in between classes, and it has lume that lasts for quite a while. It was also probably pretty bright since I was going in and out of the darkroom with the contact sheets I was working on.

I might give taco developing in a Patterson tank a shot since I also scratched the living daylight out of the film as well.

Thanks for the help.

Dr Croubie · Apr 15, 2014

FWIW, the black spots on my Kodalith were not caused by light, developed with a Mod54 in a Paterson.
As for yours, I would have presumed that anything caused by light-leaks or point-sources would be a lot more diffuse and less well-defined.
I'm thinking that emulsion damage is a lot more likely in both our cases.

bvy · Apr 16, 2014

The emulsion can be very sensitive during processing; I discovered this when I noticed the imprint of my tongs appearing in my images. Regarding uneven development, a quick presoak in water helps. Consistent agitation is a good idea also, but it does increase contrast (and this stuff needs no help). I've started experimenting with preflashing and stand development (i.e. no tray agitation) with this film, but have nothing conclusive to report yet.

What did I do wrong? (Litho Ortho update)

Amfooty

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