What developers are you using for stand development?

markbau · May 15, 2020

Having exhausted most methods of taming high contrast scenes, namely night/time exposures, I'm ready to try stand development. On reading the Darkroom cookbook and doing a bit of googling I see there is a lot of contradictory info out there. So what film/developers/dilutions/times are you stand developers using?

Frank53 · May 15, 2020

Rodinal 1:100, 1 hour.
Regards,
Frank

NB23 · May 15, 2020

The process of stand development is a failed one. No matter the contrast, not shaking the tank is like showering for a very long time but with the rule that you are not allowed to touch yourself.

I will advise 2 things for your shooting style: over expose your films. By 1, 2 or Best, 3 stops. And use Perceptol. You will love your negatives.

pentaxuser · May 15, 2020

I suppose there must be threads on other than Rodinal for stand development but I can't recall them. There are as others have said two diametrically opposed schools of thought on the benefits of stand development but in most case even the hardline standers use 30 secs at the start and at least one inversion in the middle which is usually 3O mins as total time is usually 1 hour

Give Frank53's regime a go. It may not do what you need it to do but I don't think it will be a disaster either. Most development regimes per se are never either total joy or an unmitigated disaster from what I have seen.

pentaxuser

Andrew O'Neill · May 15, 2020

The best developer I have ever used for stand/semi-stand has been with very diluted Pyrocat-HD. Semi-stand is just as effective as full on stand, so I stopped that several years ago. Full on stand runs the risk of severe bromide drag.

roblopes · May 15, 2020

markbau said:
Having exhausted most methods of taming high contrast scenes, namely night/time exposures, I'm ready to try stand development. On reading the Darkroom cookbook and doing a bit of googling I see there is a lot of contradictory info out there. So what film/developers/dilutions/times are you stand developers using?

I'm sure you will find what you're looking for here:
https://www.youtube.com/user/Trangent/videos

Alan9940 · May 15, 2020

I don't do stand development anymore, but back when I did I used Caffenol-C-L with Foma 100, 40 mins at 75F. I did 10 gentle inversions initially, then the tank sat until the time was up. Coffee was brewed from Sumatra beans sold by a member here. I probably should mention that this was 4x5.

Jeremy Mudd · May 15, 2020

Here's what I use:

Rodinal 1:100 @ 68F to 70F to start
30 seconds of agitation, then a few good whacks on the counter to remove any bubbles.
Stand for 30 minutes
4-5 inversions
Stand for another 30 minutes
Water rinse (no stop bath chems)
Fix
FPP Archival wash
Photoflo

I don't do stand or semi-stand (which is what the above technically is) with 35mm anymore due to bromide drag streaks at the holes. Only 120.

An example from the above method, shot on Fuji Acros.

Patrick Robert James · May 15, 2020

What are the methods you have exhausted? Might want to start there.

removedacct1 · May 15, 2020

Have you tried split D-23?

Paul Howell · May 15, 2020

After trying Stand without much improvement I now use split developers to adjust for very high contrast. Dinafine is very good, but at around $50 a gallon and quart kits no longer on the market I've turned to Divided 76 or Photographer's Formulary version of ID3, matter of fact I have 2 rolls film in the wash, used ID3.

Paul Howell · May 15, 2020

First look is very good, I processed a roll of Ultrafine 100 and 400, the 100 was shoot at 100 the 400 at 200, seems like both can be shot at box speed. This weekend will make a proof sheet to see how they will print.

baachitraka · May 15, 2020

https://www.photrio.com/forum/resources/shaping-the-tone-curve-of-a-rodinal-negative.50/

In comment section there are some good suggestions on developers that hold the highlights very well...

baachitraka · May 15, 2020

Glycin based developers: If exposed and developed right then it may be possible to see the glow in highlights.

Other candidates could be PC-TEA (my personal experience is it can hold highlights very well)

mohmad khatab · May 15, 2020

Paul Howell said:
After trying Stand without much improvement I now use split developers to adjust for very high contrast. Dinafine is very good, but at around $50 a gallon and quart kits no longer on the market I've turned to Divided 76 or Photographer's Formulary version of ID3, matter of fact I have 2 rolls film in the wash, used ID3.

I totally agree with you - - .. this is my developer ..
I didn't know that he had other lovers like me.
(ID3) is the best balanced developer that combines smoothness and power.

mohmad khatab · May 15, 2020

baachitraka said:
Glycin based developers: If exposed and developed right then it may be possible to see the glow in highlights.

Other candidates could be PC-TEA (my personal experience is it can hold highlights very well)

I went to buy a Glycin item the day before yesterday, and the seller told me that I have to buy a 25k check box, so I said thank you very much - does anyone know the Cas number for this item?

bnxvs · May 16, 2020

mohmad khatab said:
...does anyone know the Cas number for this item?

The name "glycine" is not correct, it's just the slang of photographers. In fact, the substance is called Para-hydroxy-phenyl-glycine (glycine-photo), or more precisely: Hydroxyphenyl glycine - https://chem.nlm.nih.gov/chemidplus/rn/122-87-2 and it has nothing to do with pharmaceutical Glycine.

juan · May 16, 2020

In my world I photograph areas of deep shadow and patches of intense sun. Regular exposure and development doesn’t cut it. Minor White wrote about exposing for Zone V, development time and temperature for the shadows and agitation for the highlights. I do a variation on that by using minimal agitation. I like any of the Pyrocat formulas. Agitate vigorously for the first minute and a half, then for 10-seconds at 1/3 and 2/3 of the development time. Member dfcardwell used to post on APUG a lot. He pointed to studies that showed you got the benefits of minimal agitation without the risks by agitating every five minutes. I’ve done that with roll films and have been happy with it.

mohmad khatab · May 16, 2020

bnxvs said:
The name "glycine" is not correct, it's just the slang of photographers. In fact, the substance is called Para-hydroxy-phenyl-glycine (glycine-photo), or more precisely: Hydroxyphenyl glycine - https://chem.nlm.nih.gov/chemidplus/rn/122-87-2 and it has nothing to do with pharmaceutical Glycine.

Thank you so much -

Mainecoonmaniac · May 17, 2020

Jeremy Mudd said:
Here's what I use:

Rodinal 1:100 @ 68F to 70F to start
30 seconds of agitation, then a few good whacks on the counter to remove any bubbles.
Stand for 30 minutes
4-5 inversions
Stand for another 30 minutes
Water rinse (no stop bath chems)
Fix
FPP Archival wash
Photoflo

I don't do stand or semi-stand (which is what the above technically is) with 35mm anymore due to bromide drag streaks at the holes. Only 120.

An example from the above method, shot on Fuji Acros.

View attachment 246322

Wow. That’s amazing. Is that a straight scan? For me, stand development works great for contrasty scenes. For flat scenes, my negs print up looking dead. I printed on grade 5 but I couldn’t get a decent print. I use the same dilution and development technique.

markbau · May 17, 2020

paulbarden said:
Have you tried split D-23?

Can you explain what "split" D23 is. The only D23 I know of is metal and Sulfite. AA talks about D 23 and Kodalk, which is no longer available.
I'm thinking that for my first test I'll expose 2 or 3 sheets identically and start with a 20 minute stand and go from there with the other two sheets.
I've seen some amazing old night/time exposures of New York in the 30s and 40s where there is beautiful detail in the shadows and the highlights have not blown out, that is pretty much what I am trying to do.

Paul Howell · May 17, 2020

Photographer Formulary sells a clone of Ilford's version of D23, ID 3, it comes a three solution kit, Metol and Sodium Sulfite in part A, Sodium carbonate and potassium bromide in part b, and when using as a divided developer borax in part c. For a divided developer start with 4 to 5 minutes in A, no rinse, 4 to 5 minutes in B, then 3 minutes in C. stop, fix and wash. I think you could use borax as a replacement for Kodalk if you wanted to made divided D23.

juan · May 17, 2020

markbau said:
Can you explain what "split" D23 is. The only D23 I know of is metal and Sulfite. AA talks about D 23 and Kodalk, which is no longer available.

Joe Lipka and Ed Buffaloe wrote the definitive divided D-23 articles
https://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/DD-23/dd-23.html

Kodalk is sodium metaborate and is available. You could also try Borax from the grocery store.

markbau · May 17, 2020

juan said:
Joe Lipka and Ed Buffaloe wrote the definitive divided D-23 articles
https://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/DD-23/dd-23.html

Kodalk is sodium metaborate and is available. You could also try Borax from the grocery store.

I was under the impression that Kodalk was a proprietary Kodak formula which Kodak no longer made. I do have photo grade Borax which is called for in the Buffaloe article so will try that, thanks so much for the link.

removedacct1 · May 17, 2020

markbau said:
Can you explain what "split" D23 is. The only D23 I know of is metal and Sulfite. AA talks about D 23 and Kodalk, which is no longer available.
I'm thinking that for my first test I'll expose 2 or 3 sheets identically and start with a 20 minute stand and go from there with the other two sheets.
I've seen some amazing old night/time exposures of New York in the 30s and 40s where there is beautiful detail in the shadows and the highlights have not blown out, that is pretty much what I am trying to do.

Divided D23 is the developing agent and the accelerator in separate solutions. You first soak the film in the developer component, and then immerse in the accelerator. Areas of higher density exhaust the available developer early and allow shadow areas to continue to develop. This has the effect of restraining highlights while allowing for full development of shadows. The article linked to at unblinkingeye explains it in greater detail. It can be a very useful approach to managing "difficult" lighting situations where highlights are hard to confine and still get some shadow information. I used to use divided D23 many years ago and found it delivered striking results when used on contrasty films.

You can substitute sodium metaborate for the Kodalk, which is indeed a defunct product.

What developers are you using for stand development?

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